Smokey

I always have to slow down to merge with traffic when coming off of onramps... :burn:

PM'd you

impossible argument to prove...but still hits home with me. All mentioned are good drummers. IMO, if you want one of the best technical drummers out there look up Dave Weckl. He's very talented at ghost notes and goofy timing.

Be very careful on this one. Kidneyboy is likely correct that something is not correct. They never brought the car to America as the M635csi, it was just badged the M6. Check the car over VERY closely to make sure that someone didn't just give their 635csi the M trim treatment. The 635csi will have the 180hp M30 engine which will be a major letdown if you're hoping for the S38. Of course it's also possible that someone along the way thought that the european badge was cooler than the American M6 badge so they just replaced it with the current one. Either way it could be a very cool project...especially with FI, but make sure you're getting what you want up front.

Jeff, you make some good points, and you're right the customers to make the most noise are usually the ones who are not happy. As a matter of fact, you can find upset customers for every dealership there is...ever...if you look hard enough. A couple of notes though...hinds only deals in bigger volumes because they whore bikes out and have nothing else to offer their customers. That's usually why people will put up with other problems there, because they're the cheapest. Their service department is always booked out a week or more because they A) run it poorly, especially in relation to job priorities and B) because people up that way don't want to take their bike to the dealers that are farther away.

sorry to hear about your experience. I hope that you can get them to take the bike back, or at least fix the problems. Unfortunately, saying that you're going to have a tough time getting them to do this is an understatement. I'm not sure about lemon law on used cars/bikes, I've never heard of that before. I can tell you that once you signed the papers and left the dealership on the bike you completed the sale and the bike is now yours according to Ohio law. If, by chance, you paid by a credit card (don't laugh, some people do), you can dispute the payment with the CC company and they may reverse the charges. Your best bet is to document everything wrong with the bike and try to get them to fix them (we won't even get into the quality of work you'll receive). Also look through your paperwork, did they have you sign an "AS-IS" form? On the bill of sale does it say that used bikes sales are as is? The Hinds issue has been discussed on this board before as well.

You make good points, and I'm not saying your wrong. But if you look at a historical perspective with times such as McCarthy-ism many times the govt will push the boundries and then the people will push them back until some sort of equilibrium is restored. You just happen to be part of the pusher-backs, which is needed. On this particular issue, I find myself to lazy to push.

I won't argue that legislators are slowly taking choices away from us, it's very true and very scary. I guess with this issue since I sit on the fence I find myself not fighting for one side or the other very hard. If the law never happened I wouldn't be upset, if it did, I wouldn't take it as the beginning of the third reich in Ohio. "Any schmuck with a steady paycheck can go finance a racing machine and pass get his/her license with no legitimate riding ability necessary." ^This is a very true and very scary statement. Unfortunately man (the species not the sex) by himself is intelligent and reasonable. When man becomes part of the masses all of a sudden all reason and intelect are thrown out the window. I believe this is the dichotomy that politicians are dealing with. Do they make the laws for the masses or with the individual in mind?

You use a good example with the smoking bans, but I just don't think this will follow the same path. Call me pesimistic or what you will, I just don't see it keeping much steam after the helmet law. If you look back, laws have already been made to limit the power of bikes (186mph rule anyone?), which haven't affected us too much. California also happens to be the one state in the union that has given riders MORE freedom through their allowance of lane splitting. I think that california is promoting the use of motorcycles as daily transportation. E-check/laws aside, they're very motorcyclist friendly.

HAHA...I remember Lawn Darts, and you're spot on. Same concept with the "thinning of the heard" comments...I read the Darwin Awards and laugh my ass off at them. However, in this circumstance I believe it's foolish to think that another motorcycle rider dying on the road (whether or not they "deserved" it or not) will not affect the rest of us (i'm also not saying that was your position). It's very interesting to think about the evolution of decisions like these down the road. I'd love to see America as a county that used motorcycles as a mainstay of transportation like European countries do. I'd also like to see us adopt the same stringent licensing policies that they have as well (just not their insurance prices). A lot of people forget that riding a motorcycle is a privelage NOT a right. Sadly, in looking at other states that have gone through this, I doubt much will come of it. Even if the state passes a law requiring helmets I doubt it will go much further than that. Politicians will move on with bigger and better hot buttons to worry about.

You make some great points here, but I'll bite and play devil's advocate. You are correct that a law such as this opens the door to put more and more restrictions on us both as citizens and motorcyclists....BUT. Motorcyclist fatality rates are already a hot topic, what if implementing this law reduced deaths by...say even 2%, would that be enough to have them worry about something else for a while? How do we know that without the law that every time someone dies without a helmet on that it doesn't provoke even more restrictive laws regarding motorcycles by fueling the politician claims that they are "death machines" and serve no good purpose? Every time someone says "it's thinning of the heard"...it's BS...truth is, every time ANY motorcyclist dies on the road it reflects negatively on ALL of us. I realize that this is a very heated topic, and unfortunately not one with an easy or clear answer, but I hope some good conversation will build out of it. Thanks Pops for bringing it up. I will point out that you didn't put your contribution on yet.

it's just funny to see the car become "the family truckster" after you LOVED that car for so long

haha. What about that front bumper to replace the belts? fun time there huh? I guess it's been good other than that...oh and the ABS module. Still gets compliments all the time though. I call BS on the second portion though.

quoted for absolute hilarity. In the circumstance that your account is closed by the CC company due to inactivity you can file a petition with the credit bureaus to have it changed to "Account closed by consumer", but I don't know how much time/effort it takes. Dealing with the bureaus can be a major pain in the ass.

will do. Did you end up going to Nelson on the 20th?

"So I switched to Capital One but didn't cancel my Amazon card. It's going to expire at the end of the year so I wasn't going to bother canceling it. Is there a difference between canceling and not renewing?" This is a prime example of what I was discussing. Unfortunately there's no way to tell if the CC company will send you a new renewed card, or if they'll close the account. That's probably up to their policies and your activity on the card. But this is a situation where they may close the account for you, and even though you did nothing wrong, it could appear as "not so good" on your credit - i.e. "Account closed by credit grantor" My advise is that if you don't intend on using the card again, close it. If you do, call to make sure they send you another card instead of closing the account. This is probably a situation of better safe than sorry.

No prob Joe, I've also been able to pick some good bits out of your info as well. It seems that there's a lot of info out there depending on which side of credit you've had experience with. I won't go into my thoughts on Discover...but let's just say that I'm not getting one of their cards unless it's just such a crazy deal that I cannot turn it down, and even then, it won't be for long. BTW...it seems we're chasing each other through threads this morning, but I'm leaving work at 10am today, so you can stop looking for me over your back then

You're correct that there is more work and cost involved with some deals than others, dealers CANNOT alter their fees from one customer to another...that's a big NO NO....just look at why ASK has a suit from the attorney general pending right now. Same thing to Putty. Dealers can legally charge freight and prep on bikes, but the charges need to have a set system/scale that is not changed based on the customer (ie...we can scam that guy out of some additional fees)

You're quite correct in everything you say. History is very important. The example that I was thinking of is that I have seen credit card companies close accounts that sit without a balance for more than 2 years. I'm pretty sure it's standard practice with Discover (good friend worked there for 4 years and informed me of this practice), but I'm not sure about the other bigger companies. I'm sure you've seen it on a bureau as "Account closed by credit grantor", which I've also seen used for when people go to debt consolidation places.

LJ and Joe, thanks for the info. I think you've both done a good job explaning things in layman's terms. *in my experience* - (F&I manager for 2 years at a bike shop) - I found that there wasn't a set amount that credit scores decreased for each inquiry (ex 3 or 5 pts). Other info that I would add is that lenders are able to use common sense. As an example,if in your history you have 5 inquiries from car dealers last may, and they see a car loan opened up for you at that time, then they can put that together. What worries lenders is when you have a bunch of inquiries without a purchase, or if you have a history of MASS inquiries....nobody wants to be the last one to jump on the questionable credit boat! once again...in my experience from behind the desk, yours may be different.

it would be a hard inquiry as explained before. MORE IMPORTANTLY, if they opened an account for you, and you are not using the card, MAKE SURE YOU CALL UP AND CLOSE THE ACCOUNT. If you leave the account stagnant for long enough the CC company will close it for you, and that does reflect negatively on your credit.

That's a really tough one, and I don't think I'll make my final decision on that for some time. Ideally, the car would be perfect on the track with another 100hp, but I'm weary as to the reliability of an aftermarket F/I car on the track on a regular basis. Currently I drive the car to the track, beat the piss out of it, and drive it home with little fuss *knocks on wood*. It would be a shame to lose that versitility. Hell after doing the 3.5"HFM/injector upgrade I got 30mpg on the way to Nelson last time!!! Cams would keep a large portion of the reliability of the car, but to do that mod correctly is very close to the amount of doing the AA C-38 Stage 1 blower kit. It's hard to swallow the thought of spending the same money for at least 30 less hp. Luckily/unfortunately (depending on how you view it), I've got time to think about it because I'm not doing anything else to the car except maintenance and consumables until next year at the earliest. A lot of the decisions down the road will be influenced on whether or not I buy an additional street/track car next year.

yeah, sorry about the treadjack, but it happens sometimes. At least it's somewhat meaningful conversation and not just meanless arguments about nothing right? Andy, had to be specific about track...didn't want people thinking I bought a 14 second car to drag race with. The tires are BFG KDWs...no complaints so far from me. Thanks for the compliments.

yeah, like I said. You just live and learn on that one. I've heard many dealers give the old "I'll only send it to one bank" line, and when they don't, other than screaming at them, there's nothing you can do.

They definately get people to make emotional purchases, but then again, they're a car dealer, and that's how you sell cars. I've always wanted a FD, and every time that I see one up at their dealership I cringe at the thought of someone buying one that they don't know the history of. My M3 is no longer stock. Minor motor mods to make it go a bit better and certainly sound better/louder....gotta love the way that 6 sounds on full boil. Suspension wise, not much is stock anymore. TC Kline coilovers 500/500# springs, GC adjustable front bar, adjustable rear camber arms, poly bushings on the front control arms and rear trailing arm bushings. She may not be the fastest thing in a straight line, but I'll never back down from a clover-leaf challenge...haha. I got the car to be a good compromise street/track (the ones with turns) car and I must say that I've never had as much FUN driving anything else I've owned. Edit: sorry, got on a tangent there...yes OBD-I and I still have the DoubleSpoke wheels as my track wheels