Moto-Brian Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'd echo Todd's comments on the scoring, but I'd like some clarification on how it's going to be scored before anyone gets too upset. I know this isn't the proper venue, but I'll also informally "protest" my own result in the Stock XR race. I was listed as 15th or so, ahead of Ben, Russ, and a couple of other people. I crashed out. Plain and simple. Mark it a zero, Dude. OVER THE LINE! That noted, I will be submitting a proposed rule change for the club at the end of the year: Rather than make this a "double points" race, I would like to see qualifying count as "race 1" and the feature count as "race 2." I said this before the event, and it turns out it would have helped me A LOT. I qualified 5th, and got a DNF... so instead of 0 points, I'd have scored ahead of everyone in our club, except Devon, Jared, and Kent. The #77 situation... Upon further research, he's a professional flat-tracker with some serious racing credentials. I still feel that he was riding in an unsafe manner, but I'm slightly more willing to acknowledge that some fault for the incidents I was involved in falls on my shoulders. He would stick out his foot, and I would (over?)react to that. Had I just put my head down and ridden my race, it may have been less of an issue. I still think the guy was riding like a dick though, and more importantly, an unsafe dick. He wasn't at a flat-track event. He wasn't racing against other professionals who are used to that kind of aggression, and perhaps most relevantly, he wasn't racing for the lead... If he'd been kicking ass and setting lap records, I'd have thought, "well he's doing something right..." I know I'll get flamed for commenting on something I am not a part of. But, two things... One, qualifying should NEVER be a part of crediting points. Some qualify well while others race well. Qualifying should be used to seperate riders. If needing to split grids up, use qualifying as a way to do that and run two races. Double points is great and allows the event to accomodate larger entry amounts and accomodate different ability levels. Second, flat track form in supermoto on these small bikes is fine. I don't think it is the fastest way around, but we used to have road racer style in bug supermoto and it was fine. Bottom line is the rider. Doesn't matter the style. If you are locked in on the rider and distracted by his foot, you need to focus on your racing and looking ahead. If he is riding like an idiot from what has been said, doesn't matter if he rides like a supermoto rider, a road racer, an MX rider or a damn Circus Clown. If he rides well, it isn't an issue the way he rides. If he rides like shit and is being too aggressive, don't blame it on the style - blame it on the rider. As for the deal with corner workers, they are volunteers usually. And for the most part, they see cars and big bikes on the big track. Corner workers are like the EMT staff at the track. They put up with the heat, sun, rain, cold, assholes, etc. If they need some education, fine. But don't slam them - educate them. Easy. The club sounds like it needs some direction. I know that when I have spoken up, the response was to bring things up end of year. That's insane. Organizations will make rule changes and adjust policy at any point within a season if it makes sense and helps out as a whole. To have to wait until end of the year, you easily could burn bridges with potential new sign-ups after one race. Taking what I am reading here, if there aren't things changed immediately, they will remember the last event and potentially pass on doing any more. Just like racing, you are only as good as your last performance. That's all I got. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 That is well said Brian.1) I agree with rider/style, I blamed the rider from the start. He rode like an aggressive asshole with an ax to grind. Caused several crashes and put one guy in the hospital.2) The corner workers deff needed some education, I know what they deal with since I work ems and flag at Mid Ohio, this case here seemed to have as much to do with laziness as lack of training.3) I also agree there is no reason to wait till year end for rule changes.I know for myself and at least 2 others we will not bother going back to PIRC for this round next season unless there are changes planned for scoring, griding and assbag riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Brian is right.. I only said it will be fixed for next year because we only do this event once a year.. It's hosted by us (OMRL) and co-hosted by NJMiniGP. Our class rules are the only thing that we "vote" on at the end of the season. For the most part, the class rules are near perfect, in my opinion. Other changes within the club can and will be fixed if needed mid season for safety and growing of the club. The corner workers were not normal corner workers.. They were just the people that run the kart track. That is the problem...and now we know better. Next years event WILL be different with the corner worker situation. Not a big issue. The one rider.. Yes.. His very aggressive style was addressed by many there, even the lady running the kart track said something to him. But I agree with ya Brian.. If you are distracted by his leg out style, then focus on something else. I know I was behind him in practice and did enjoy watching him back it into the corners.. Wondered why he was doing that, because it's not the fast way around the track, but just thought he was having fun, or showing off? Didn't know that he was taking every corner like that. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Todd, I'll have an answer for ya about the scoring in the XR class. I think I know the answer, but want to clarify it with Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ok.. As far as points.. Just got off the phone with Kent. More than likely he will score it double points by OUR club members race results. If you were 4th, but had 2 non club members in front of you, you'll be given 2nd. He is only scoring the race and where OUR club members finished at. Copy all that?? If you have further questions please email Kent at the club email on our website. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ok.. As far as points.. Just got off the phone with Kent. More than likely he will score it double points by OUR club members race results. If you were 4th, but had 2 non club members in front of you, you'll be given 2nd. He is only scoring the race and where OUR club members finished at. Copy all that?? If you have further questions please email Kent at the club email on our website. ThanksThat is fair and is exactly what many of us talked about Saturday. I think you will have zero complaints there as there were at least 8-10 that talked about doing just that. I think that is really the only way to keep our series straight too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 And since youre being so helpful Conrad How about getting an answer on the next race venue.....Its quickly approaching and still listed as TBA, many asked Sat and go no answer as well and Ive got a thread about it on OMRL also unanswered. Many of us need time to plan with family, pets, jobs etc if its farther or longer day and such than our normal CRP days. It would be nice to know sooner than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Ahhhh... Ok, but only because I'm trying to be nice! lol I did ask kent that question also, forgot to reply to that. We are looking at possibly going to that new track.. But Kent has to call and see if they have made any improvements since the last time he was there. Keep an eye on it. And bring the pets and kids! Btw, thanks to those that congratulated me on the wins. It wasn't easy to beat the fast kids, and I'm sure they will beat me next year, so I'll take it when I can! Here's a sweet pic and video! Practice following young gun Brandon from NJ, and my F1 qualifying run! http://youtu.be/C7Su-PugvDIF3 race.. 1sthttp://youtu.be/xKOMAhfLBVo Edited June 25, 2014 by fireman_343 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Whoa I'm a lil giddy right now lol. I just googled that track Kent is looking at and it's like 30 mins from me. I can making regular visits there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Ok.. As far as points.. Just got off the phone with Kent. More than likely he will score it double points by OUR club members race results. If you were 4th, but had 2 non club members in front of you, you'll be given 2nd. He is only scoring the race and where OUR club members finished at. Copy all that?? If you have further questions please email Kent at the club email on our website. Thanks Seems odd... Why then organize with another group if all that is going to happen is that whomever wasn't a club member is looked at as a ghost? You should welcome the competition and feel satisfied or challeneged where you finished. The WERA National is coming to Mid-Ohio. Think it is fair to score the regional guys in their order vs where they really scored? I get it to a degree, but why make a big deal over it being an Eastern Event when all you do is score yourself amongst the club you always race with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bark615 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Whoa I'm a lil giddy right now lol. I just googled that track Kent is looking at and it's like 30 mins from me. I can making regular visits there. I agree, I know the track is in rough shape but would be willing to help out at track with any help needed! Edited June 25, 2014 by bark615 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Seems odd... Why then organize with another group if all that is going to happen is that whomever wasn't a club member is looked at as a ghost? You should welcome the competition and feel satisfied or challeneged where you finished. The WERA National is coming to Mid-Ohio. Think it is fair to score the regional guys in their order vs where they really scored? I get it to a degree, but why make a big deal over it being an Eastern Event when all you do is score yourself amongst the club you always race with?Because current points breakdown only allows for points to 15th place and there were 30 bike grids. They ran novice and expert together instead of splitting for some reason so now the entire novice group will get 0 points for being there and some of the experts will get zero also. That is the best way to handle it this time after the fact. I think it needs to be addressed prior to next season though. Personally I think novice and expert should always be split too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnone Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Expert and novice are always scored separately even if run together. Your fears are unwarranted. I agree with Brian, you get points for the place you finish. This is how it was the last two years at the combined event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Expert and novice are always scored separately even if run together. Your fears are unwarranted. I agree with Brian, you get points for the place you finish. This is how it was the last two years at the combined event.In our club yes, but the NJ has no E and N grouping and we were going their way so it was just stock XR and 30 riders. So can't really score sepperate without removing non OMRL members like he's doing because they don't have a novice group. So pull our novice group and score them as novic is all good, but then that still leaves an expert group of 25 or more and only points to 15th. The way he's doing it is really the only way to do it mid season. Can't completely change points breakdown mid season to allow for more than 15 it would change the whole 1st half of season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 It was complicated last year because the NJ club does not have a Novice class, so their members got to decide where they registered. I am pretty sure JB was our fastest novice last year, with a 1:20 in the F4 race. It was Gavin's first time riding the NSF, or he probably would have been quicker. But regardless, the NJ club's "novices" were going 3 seconds a lap quicker than ours. Our top novice ought to be awarded first place points this year, but if there were two riders between the top OMRL novice, and the next OMRL novice, that rider should get 4th place points. I believe that's how it's going to be scored, per Conrad's comment above. So the same as last year, just without the top OMRL rider being in 6th... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Because current points breakdown only allows for points to 15th place and there were 30 bike grids. They ran novice and expert together instead of splitting for some reason so now the entire novice group will get 0 points for being there and some of the experts will get zero also.That is the best way to handle it this time after the fact. I think it needs to be addressed prior to next season though.Personally I think novice and expert should always be split too. Easy. Just score them per novice and expert. You guys can pull out who is what based on entry... That way, you get true scores... Why they combined a race like that with so many and do it with both levels is crazy. Lessons to be learned I am sure from what Brian has stated and know HE at least cares and understands which you should have confidence in. It'll get handled, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 In our club yes, but the NJ has no E and N grouping and we were going their way so it was just stock XR and 30 riders. So can't really score sepperate without removing non OMRL members like he's doing because they don't have a novice group. So pull our novice group and score them as novic is all good, but then that still leaves an expert group of 25 or more and only points to 15th. The way he's doing it is really the only way to do it mid season. Can't completely change points breakdown mid season to allow for more than 15 it would change the whole 1st half of season. But, if 25 experts are there and signed up to race and you finish 16th, you get no points. You are racing in your class and should get scored where you rightfully finished. So, if there are more than the points allow, you just need to get better and finish higher to get points... Like my National example. We cannot be scored regionally vs. Nationally. That's why they typically score double points. The reasoning is because let's say you normally finish 5th regionally amongst 15 guys. You get a grid of 30 and finish 12th, you get double the points. The National guy gets a ton of points, but only is techincally scored regionally once. Shouldn't be an issue... You get scored where you finish in your class. That's racing. Butter cup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowdog Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Score it as we finished, no point in changing things now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 It was complicated last year because the NJ club does not have a Novice class, so their members got to decide where they registered. I am pretty sure JB was our fastest novice last year, with a 1:20 in the F4 race. It was Gavin's first time riding the NSF, or he probably would have been quicker. But regardless, the NJ club's "novices" were going 3 seconds a lap quicker than ours. Our top novice ought to be awarded first place points this year, but if there were two riders between the top OMRL novice, and the next OMRL novice, that rider should get 4th place points. I believe that's how it's going to be scored, per Conrad's comment above. So the same as last year, just without the top OMRL rider being in 6th... Your top novice should be awarded where he finished amongst registered novices. If there is an issue and an expert signed up as a novice and is shown to have raced the other org's expert races, then yes... They should be an expert ranked rider and removed. But if there are two other club guys between your top ranked novice and another club racer and all novices, the two in between deserve the points and should be omitted to allow the next club guy to move up and get points he didn't earn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 No need to get frazzle dazzled with the points guys.. It is just mini racing (monkeys racing kids bikes). We will make it RIGHT and FAIR for all. It will be black and white/addressed for the next round and most definitely for the next National event. Remember.. This is my baby that I created years ago.. I never thought it would get as big as it was last weekend. Kent, Russ, myself and a few other officials will sit down and map out a plan. It's to the point now where it needs to be the same every year, same class rules, same schedule, same points, etc.. But..like I always say... If u want 1st place points.. More throttle and less brake! Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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