TimTheAzn Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, 2talltim said: No trail braking has to do with weight transfer. More weight = more friction Ok. You are partially correct but it does much more. Sure weight transfers forward when you get on the brakes but trust me when I tell you that when you trail brake you are doing a couple things. 1. Putting forks into their working range. 2. Enlarges the contact patch of the front tire on the pavement because the weight is transferred forward. There is friction between tire and the road whenever the tire is touching the ground, even when straight up and down. The size of the contact patch determines the maximum level of grip that can be used, whether it is for brake pressure or lean angle. Think of it like this, you only have 100 points of grip in any tire. You must manage that level and if you go over 100 points of grip you slide and or crash. 3. Provides direction because speed = radius. Edited October 14, 2019 by TimTheAzn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TimTheAzn said: 2. Enlarges the contact patch of the front tire on the pavement because the weight is transferred forward Yes, but both half's of that statement are needed. MORE weight on a larger contact patch will of course increase grip. Which is what you just described. What we are saying is the same weight on two different contact patches is the same grip. This is unfortunate, it appears we are both correct. Just different circumstances. Edited October 14, 2019 by Tonik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 And I will add to the above. If you could load the front trail braking and magically NOT increase the patch size you would have the same grip if you did load it and increased the patch size. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Howabusa said: Iron pony will only sell and mount the stock size tire. Do they have every rim memorized?. pull it and cart it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howabusa Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) No. They ask for what bike the wheel is from and they look up what tire size is stock. I am sure it has something to do with liability. Edited October 14, 2019 by Howabusa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 14, 2019 Report Share Posted October 14, 2019 So you tell them a bike model that the tire is actually for. 🖕 IP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 The reason for running a taller+wider tire is the profile is generally better at full lean and will give a little more lean angle. Tip-in would also be quicker than with a more flattened out tire. You'd get more contact patch out of a taller tire giving you more grip at lean but that's only because you run out of contact patch sooner on a flatter tire when you exceed the tire edge - Lean angle is a bit more limited on a thinner tire but that's fine as you can compensate by getting off the bike more. You don't want to exceed the tire edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, what said: The reason for running a taller+wider tire is the profile is generally better at full lean and will give a little more lean angle. Tip-in would also be quicker than with a more flattened out tire. You'd get more contact patch out of a taller tire giving you more grip at lean but that's only because you run out of contact patch sooner on a flatter tire when you exceed the tire edge - Lean angle is a bit more limited on a thinner tire but that's fine as you can compensate by getting off the bike more. You don't want to exceed the tire edge. Yup. I can use every cm of 55 when I run them, a 50 tire it is impossible to run to the edge. Usually have 1/4" chicken nuggets left on them after draggin parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, 2talltim said: Yup. I can use every cm of 55 when I run them, a 50 tire it is impossible to run to the edge. Usually have 1/4" chicken nuggets left on them after draggin parts. A taller tire should make you drag hard parts before you run out of lean angle, typically. Example - I went from a wider/taller tire on the Grom to a thinner tall tire. I ran out of lean angle on the wider/tall tire beforeI ran out of grip. On the newer thinner tire I run out of grip before I run out of lean angle. Obviously I'd rather run out of lean angle first however the wider tires cause a really bad geometry tearing issue that is not solvable and kills my front tire after 1 race weekend. The difference in maximum lean angle is not much but it's there. Now that I know where that maximum angle is, I can get off the bike more right before that point to lessen the impact on corner speed. Edited October 15, 2019 by what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, what said: A taller tire should make you drag hard parts before you run out of lean angle, typically. All I know is I never have any chicken strips left on the taller 55. And can never get rid of them on the stock 50. Draging hard parts with both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Taller tire typically is harder to get to the edge. 50 vs 55 vs 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, TimTheAzn said: Taller tire typically is harder to get to the edge. 50 vs 55 vs 60. Then my bike defies the laws of physics... I have several examples on the shelf at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 And all poor @Iggy wanted was a new tire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, Tonik said: And all poor @Iggy wanted was a new tire. Q3+ and done. Sticky with decent lifespan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Mac Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 😉 2 hours ago, 2talltim said: All I know is I never have any chicken strips left on the taller 55. And can never get rid of them on the stock 50. Draging hard parts with both. 1. Add Preloaded. 2. Try pushing your fat ass away from the dinner table a little earlier😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, 2talltim said: Then my bike defies the laws of physics... I have several examples on the shelf at home. Ok, this is a real puzzle. We need to solve it. Put a shorter tire on and figure out a way to keep the bike upright. Chock the front perhaps. It would be helpful if you add your amount of weight to the seat if possible. Lay a 4x8 beside the bike and lift up the edge furthest from the bike until it hits a hard part. Then measure the distance from the edge of the 4x8 to the ground. Put a taller tire on and repeat. Then post results. TiA. Edited October 15, 2019 by Tonik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tonik said: Ok, this is a real puzzle. We need to solve it. Put a shorter tire on and figure out a way to keep the bike upright. Chock the front perhaps. It would be helpful if you add your amount of weight to the seat if possible. Lay a 4x8 beside the bike and lift up the edge furthest from the bike until it hits a hard part. Then measure the distance from the edge of the 4x8 to the ground. Put a taller tire on and repeat. Then post results. TiA. I will do that. Sometime next year when I change tires again. Have 50 on there right now, and a 55 on the rack i'm going to next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Mac Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Tonik said: Ok, this is a real puzzle. We need to solve it. Put a shorter tire on and figure out a way to keep the bike upright. Chock the front perhaps. It would be helpful if you add your amount of weight to the seat if possible. Lay a 4x8 beside the bike and lift up the edge furthest from the bike until it hits a hard part. Then measure the distance from the edge of the 4x8 to the ground. Put a taller tire on and repeat. Then post results. TiA. I tried this and the board turned/rolled over???? What air pressure should I be running for this exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 minute ago, B-Mac said: What air pressure should I be running for this exercise. Anything other than what the tire/bike manufacturer recommends. Might want to start a thread on that. We will figure it out as we are way smarter than they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 My bike came with a 180/55/17, but my cousin has a set of race take-offs from his 1985 Caprice Classic. Should I use DynaBeads or just slap some hamsteak in there and hope for the best? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) The way I test my air pressure is I ride into a large body of water and see if the tires make the bike float upside down or if I just keep riding along on the bottom. If the bike doesn't float then I need to increase my air pressure. I will say though neutral buoyancy is about where you want it set for track though as you don't want too much air in there reducing the contact patch. Edited October 15, 2019 by what 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 15, 2019 Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 I just had a genius idea. As has been undeniably demonstrated, more weight not more contact patch increases grip. The answer here is to load our saddle bags with sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Tonik said: And all poor @Iggy wanted was a new tire. Nah lol I'm having too much fun watching the debate. Also there's bunch of useful information. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie14 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 From motorcycle ride event thread to tire thread to political thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Connie14 said: From motorcycle ride event thread to tire thread to political thread. OR at its best. Now watch this. Since more weight is more grip what about using a heavier weight oil in my bike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.