Tonik Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 When they add that stuff at those prices.to the rest of the fleet Harley is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Tpoppa said: Idk. I specifically bought a bike with no rider aids. It's fun for me. In racing, I think the over the top rider aids like gps-linked fueling and braking profiles for each corner are kind of ridiculous. There's a balance obviously, but I'd rather see the best rider win than see the best tech win. IMO, the racing in Moto 2 & 3 is usually better than MotoGP, partly because the tech advantage is minimized. Not sure if they have braking profiles. To me that would just add a variable I don't care to have to think about/ adjust to. I want the brakes to feel the same way every time, leave it to me to modulate the brake. GPS linked traction control, yes. Event at the "amateur" level it exists. Some corners require more intervention than others. Fuel mapping may change based on what the TC is telling it to do to prevent wheelspin. FWIW I dont think that tiny ninja needs traction control anyway LOL. I don't think my sv needs it and I have more HP and TQ. Edited October 30, 2019 by TimTheAzn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Im not sure how the new systems are but the ABS on my bike is an absolute last resort measure. The brakes act just like any other non ABS bikes brakes 99.9% of the time. But the 4 or 5 times I'm glad I had them were "oh shit" moments. Only one of those times was it because I ran out of talent. The other times were due to idiot cagers or critters that didn't stay in their lane bro. Mine dose not have TC but i can think of a couple times it would have been nice to have. Edited October 30, 2019 by 2talltim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, 2talltim said: Im not sure how the new systems are but the ABS on my bike is an absolute last resort measure. The brakes act just like any other non ABS bikes brakes 99.9% of the time. But the 4 or 5 times I'm glad I had them were "oh shit" moments. Only one of those times was it because I ran out of talent. The other times were due to idiot cagers or critters that didn't stay in their lane bro. Mine dose not have TC but i can think of a couple times it would have been nice to have. Even on the track, ABS has saved some of my buddy's only handful of times that I've heard of, at most. Mostly those emergency situations and the rear wheel was off the ground. AHem, @blue03636 Edited October 30, 2019 by TimTheAzn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Saved me during 2 stoppies. The only downside is the brakes get mushy and I don't know if I can get that to go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 59 minutes ago, TimTheAzn said: Not sure if they have braking profiles. To me that would just add a variable I don't care to have to think about/ adjust to. I want the brakes to feel the same way every time, leave it to me to modulate the brake. GPS linked traction control, yes. Event at the "amateur" level it exists. Some corners require more intervention than others. Fuel mapping may change based on what the TC is telling it to do to prevent wheelspin. Watching MotoGP a few years ago...they were talking about GPS linked traction & abs profiles for each corner. I think that stuff is stupid as fuck. The bike can do things the rider just can't. IMO, it takes away from the competition and necessary skill. It's not even tech that has any sort of benefit for production bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: Watching MotoGP a few years ago...they were talking about GPS linked traction & abs profiles for each corner. I think that stuff is stupid as fuck. The bike can do things the rider just can't. IMO, it takes away from the competition and necessary skill. It's not even tech that has any sort of benefit for production bikes. They are going down the same path that Forumula One went down. All this tech to make it a prefect race car that hardly needs a driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: Watching MotoGP a few years ago...they were talking about GPS linked traction & abs profiles for each corner. I think that stuff is stupid as fuck. The bike can do things the rider just can't. IMO, it takes away from the competition and necessary skill. It's not even tech that has any sort of benefit for production bikes. Take that all away, those guys are still the best in the world and would prove it on any bike. Even the back markers could come over here and whoop on the MA paddock. At the level they are competing at, they are looking for any kind of advantage. There was a post I was looking at, it was an interview with Josh Herrin and he was talking about him and Tony Elias going back and forth. After looking at Toni's data, Toni was getting better drives out of corners because he wasnt just whacking the throttle open, he was progressively opening it where as Josh was just whacking it open and letting the technology take hold. Guess what he found? Toni using his skill to open the throttle was faster than just letting the TC sort things out. So Josh followed suit. So even over here, riders arent 100% relying on the bike to go fast. Edited October 30, 2019 by TimTheAzn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 I can see myself looking at the Darkhorse line. Been considering a cruiser. That huge front fairing and headlight assembly is something that would have to grow on me I guess. That’s the part I don’t really care for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, TimTheAzn said: Take that all away, those guys are still the best in the world and would prove it on any bike. Even the back markers could come over here and whoop on the MA paddock. At the level they are competing at, they are looking for any kind of advantage. There was a post I was looking at, it was an interview with Josh Herrin and he was talking about him and Tony Elias going back and forth. After looking at Toni's data, Toni was getting better drives out of corners because he wasnt just whacking the throttle open, he was progressively opening it where as Josh was just whacking it open and letting the technology take hold. Guess what he found? Toni using his skill to open the throttle was faster than just letting the TC sort things out. So Josh followed suit. I agree they're the best is the world. But, I'll bet they'll develop the TC profile to match Tony's throttle modulation. At that point, why even give the riders a throttle or a brake lever...I mean the GPS link already knows the throttle and braking points. The rider could just be leaning weight like the "monkey" in sidecar racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 The GPS tc is there to keep all that power from killing them. It's so they can still get it to spin but not toss them 10' in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: I agree they're the best is the world. But, I'll bet they'll develop the TC profile to match Tony's throttle modulation. At that point, why even give the riders a throttle or a brake lever...I mean the GPS link already knows the throttle and braking points. The rider could just be leaning weight like the "monkey" in sidecar racing. Man we're in 2019, you don't think they saw the data during the season and tried to tweak it? We're still a long ways off from bikes being able to go faster than a human without a human. With what your saying, you could hop on a GP bike and go as fast because the bike is doing the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, MidgetTodd said: I can see myself looking at the Darkhorse line. Been considering a cruiser. That huge front fairing and headlight assembly is something that would have to grow on me I guess. That’s the part I don’t really care for I have put 9k miles on the Voyager since April. It is my first cruiser and I can say the giant fairing is easily at the top of the "Things I Love About This Bike" list. A 600 mile day trip, in the wet, across the mountain, on the freeway... that fairing is non-negotiable. It just makes the ride so much more enjoyable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, blue03636 said: The GPS tc is there to keep all that power from killing them. It's so they can still get it to spin but not toss them 10' in the air. So, the riders lack the skill to race their own motorcycle? That makes the GPS race tech sound even more stupid. 28 minutes ago, Tonik said: They are going down the same path that Forumula One went down. All this tech to make it a prefect race car that hardly needs a driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, TimTheAzn said: Man we're in 2019, you don't think they saw the data during the season and tried to tweak it? We're still a long ways off from bikes being able to go faster than a human without a human. With what your saying, you could hop on a GP bike and go as fast because the bike is doing the work. No. I'm saying it's more interesting when the best rider wins. It's less interesting when the best tech wins. I'd rather watch Moto3 than MotoGP. Now, if you put the MotoGP riders on the Moto3 bikes that would be some competitive, entertaining racing that wasn't "over" halfway through the first lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: No. I'm saying it's more interesting when the best rider wins. It's less interesting when the best tech wins. I'd rather watch Moto3 than MotoGP. Now, if you put the MotoGP riders on the Moto3 bikes that would be some competitive, entertaining racing that wasn't "over" halfway through the first lap. The best rider is winning. MM93 is the best rider in the world and has been imo since he got to GP. Fabio has entered the stage now and we will see how that plays out in 2020. It's not purely the bike, or Lorenzo wouldnt be a complete back marker. Ducati has more legs than the Honda (Honda got way faster this year and its not nearly as bad but I think the duc is still slightly faster in a straight line.) Put a Moto3 guy on a GP bike, guess whos losing? Put a GP guy back on a Moto3 bike, guess who my money is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 53 minutes ago, TimTheAzn said: Take that all away, those guys are still the best in the world and would prove it on any bike. Even the back markers could come over here and whoop on the MA paddock. At the level they are competing at, they are looking for any kind of advantage. There was a post I was looking at, it was an interview with Josh Herrin and he was talking about him and Tony Elias going back and forth. After looking at Toni's data, Toni was getting better drives out of corners because he wasnt just whacking the throttle open, he was progressively opening it where as Josh was just whacking it open and letting the technology take hold. Guess what he found? Toni using his skill to open the throttle was faster than just letting the TC sort things out. So Josh followed suit. So even over here, riders arent 100% relying on the bike to go fast. Interesting. This story seems to indicate they are using the tech for the same reason we do. Insurance for when we f' up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_ Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 I absolutely love the electronics on the track. I have then turned down as far as they will go, allows me to slide the bike around on entry or exit but keeps me in check if I go too far. I do still have ABS but that will probably be gone for next year. If someone wants to take out a 200rwhp bike with no safety nets more power to them, but I just want to rip around on track with my buddies and go home in the same condition I showed up in and electronics help with all that. The best thing is to not engage TC at all but still have more rear wheel speed. Once TC engages you will still get drive but not as much as you would without it being activated. "This all being personal experience on an R1" If you want to watch big bike racing without electronics BSB would be your best bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_ Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, Tonik said: Interesting. This story seems to indicate they are using the tech for the same reason we do. Insurance for when we f' up. And? That's not the argument here, the argument is that those aids pretty makes the rider useless lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinNck1 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 A thread about a cruiser turns into MotoGP talk 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JustinNck1 said: A thread about a cruiser turns into MotoGP talk 🤣 I just said I liked that they were putting electronics onto cruisers. It's a cool feature that everybody should take advantage of that can. 31 minutes ago, Jester_ said: I do still have ABS but that will probably be gone for next year. I've been debating the ABS on my R1, how intrusive is it on the track? Never had a bike with ABS before and figured I'd give it a go at least next season but I'd be really interested in informed feedback. Would be a good area to re-mount my ECU if the pump went away... Edited October 30, 2019 by what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Tpoppa said: So, the riders lack the skill to race their own motorcycle? That makes the GPS race tech sound even more stupid. Not what I said but cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2talltim Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, JustinNck1 said: A thread about a cruiser turns into MotoGP talk 🤣 I was debating on moving this thread to the Track section @TimTheAzn is just getting pay back for my track trolling. I kid .. I kid....carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, what said: I just said I liked that they were putting electronics onto cruisers. It's a cool feature that everybody should take advantage of that can. I've been debating the ABS on my R1, how intrusive is it on the track? Never had a bike with ABS before and figured I'd give it a go at least next season but I'd be really interested in informed feedback. Would be a good area to re-mount my ECU if the pump went away... Ran my abs all year. Didn't notice it until the rear wheel was off the ground. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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