Are You On Verizons List?

[thorne]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/15/AR2007101501857.html?hpid=topnews

 

 

THATS SCARRY

 

There is always at some point were the layers of seperation break down. anit this cool?

[87GT]

So is it ok to pass a law to help telephone companies that are sued by individuals? That is sued for violating their privacy rights? What the hell man? Soon it could be against the law to sue a big corporation for doing warrantless wiretapping...

[Drewhop]

Personally i could care less if a "government agency" knows who i called or what i said. If im not doing anything illegal it really dont matter. I stopped reading the story about half way thru.

 

So basically they are giving information to government agency regarding "Criminal Cases/Activities" and requesting this information. Instead of waiting for 48-72 hours to get a subpoena to get the same information they are giving them the information possibly helping solve a case or find a little kid who has been kidnapped.

 

Stop thinking one track all the time think about the big picture.

 

 

Lets say you have a little boy/girl and they are kidnapped.

 

By chance that person has a verizon cell phone/home phone. They make calls that would help locate them. Instead of getting a fast reaction the cops/fbi have to wait 72 hours to get the records. In that time waiting to get access to this information this sadistic prick burries your kid in a field then calls the police on the verizon phone they could have already got records for and says you can stop looking i already burried the kid.

 

I know this might be extreme. But come on stop thinking the government is tryin to invade every aspect of our lifes. If someone evesdropping on my calls somehow makes my family a little safer. So be it.

 

Sorry rant off i just hate hearing about random BS that is posted by newspapers you can only believe 50% of it anyway.

[thorne]

You my friend should go right now and kill yourself as you stand for nothing america was founded on. There is no fucking safety in listening to me tell my wife how I want to bang her or anything else that to me is fucking private.

 

Why would you by any facet think that by violating everyones privacy means they will catch anything? If every single call in america was sniffed then you would not do transacations that way.

 

Ok, Now its done by hand to hand notes. Now anytime you give something to someone in public you must show it to someone for review.

 

I mean come on where does it fucking stop?

 

They already knew 9/11 was going to happen and that all the intel said there was a high chance of something happening and they could not handle that small minuscule amount of information What the fuck makes you think that by listnening to everything and having more intel its going to make it any fucking easier.

 

 

 

You want a safe fucking america, here you go. We bring back our troops and guard our fucking borders. (Wow just stopped terroism 1. were not pissing poeple off in there country 2. its harder to get in) Ohh while were at it we just cut back the drugs coming in to. God damn look how much crime I stopped with out invading anyones fucking life.

 

God people who think like you piss me off as you don't see the big fucking picture the big picture is just because you THINK it might make you safer its ok.

 

 

My solution would stop tons of crimes as drugs being cut back means Crack heads wont be stealing shit as much, This goes down the fucking lione here . If the hijackers could not have got into america as easly as they did that would have changed things quite a bit.

 

The reason you have to get a fucking subpeona is called checks and balances. Go back read history and then make decision that affect everyones life.

 

 

I apolgize if you take this as a personal attack on you. Its a personal attack on your lack of understanding .

 

Where is the checks and balances that our goverment was supposed to be uilt on? Who watches the watchers? So If I hear you say something fucked up or even out of context I have a right to violate your life then? Drug test you ? DNA test you ? Go look at my other thread regarding BLOODTEST Dui stops. So is innocent till proven guilty not a issue with you?

 

How many times have you said or did something on the phone or in public that your happy no one videod or documented? I mean maybe you pissed ur pants drunk or fucked your wife. What ever? Have you ever said even 1 thing on the phone you would not want posted on CR?

 

Answer yes to those questions please. I will find every piece of data I can on you and post it all up on CR. I tell you now I will not do it with out your permision. If you doubt that I can find ANYTHING on you that you would not really want everyone to see ask pddqp. I showed him what I found and thats with out a wiretap.

 

Now imagine I'm JoeBlow who's job it is to get paid 13$ an hour to monitor calls. Do you think they would use high end people fuck no can't afford that. Now while at work I hear some funny ass shit maybe someone i know or maybe not.

 

Now say its a story similar to sam like storys or maybe so and so family went to jail what ever it is it was ment to be private. But I find it fucking funny so I post it online.

 

Thats a gross Violation of my privacy.

 

 

Ok, I'm going back to bed.

 

You should really rethink your stance on how crime is fought and what really protects.

 

 

All you propose is to watch more things. I can tell you in my job in the past I had to seen things go across the network in a normal routine procudure ( we were tracking down the source of a virus and capturing it to find out how it worked. This was part of my job.

 

I seen an email fly by showing X having a affair with Y. I was not supossed to see that shit. I Also seen X on adultfriendfinder.com X is married.

 

Was i looking for those things? NO It was my job to montior our Intrustion system. A string of text in his post tripped a alarm. When I went to investigate it. Now lets say I was a fucked up person I could have estorted him posted that shit online make it public.

[Drewhop]

Some of your issues i agree with military stance so on so forth. My brother just got out of the air force i wanted him home more then anything.

 

But you avoided my entire example in everything i said.

 

Certain circumstances i have no problem with short cutting some paperwork to help solve a problem. Now if it is a case going to trial that they have weeks and months to set things up no reason to shortcut following the law.

 

I repo cars for a living(along with other things) and have done them for years. I know how much private information is so very easy to find. Its almost comical how easy it is to obtain information on any given person. I believe there are major flaws in the system that need fixed.

 

Thinking that someone who thinks my way is any less concerned is very flawed in there thinking. Politically standing me and you will never agree. But that by no means does not mean we dont agree on certain things.

 

But like i said in my original post in certain circumstances i think cutting a corner is a must.

 

Please dont try and catorgarize me grouped into "How people like you think" You dont know me or anything i stand for or believe. I stated my opinion and a very specific example of when i thought something like that should be acceptable. It may not have come out exactly how i wanted it to sound.

 

Political arguements are one of the reasons that this country is as strong as it is.

[Mr. Jones]

Thorne has finally gone over the edge.

He lives in a paranoid world where everyone is after him.

 

I could car less if the government wants to know how many times I called my girlfriend or family members. Sure, have at my records as well. Yes, I do download pirated software and songs!

 

So long as you are not a terrorist you have nothing to hide. Most people who are that paranoid usually have something that they are afraid of being exposed while they were looking for terrorist activities.

[Skinner]

Thorne has finally gone over the edge.

He lives in a paranoid world where everyone is after him.

 

I could car less if the government wants to know how many times I called my girlfriend or family members. Sure, have at my records as well. Yes, I do download pirated software and songs!

 

So long as you are not a terrorist you have nothing to hide. Most people who are that paranoid usually have something that they are afraid of being exposed while they were looking for terrorist activities.

 

I understand where you're coming from. If you have only to hide you're right it shouldn't matter. But it does, its your basic right to privacy. If you are willing to give you this right (or if its taken from us), then whats to say the gov will start to take other rights as well?

[Drewhop]

I understand where you're coming from. If you have only to hide you're right it shouldn't matter. But it does, its your basic right to privacy. If you are willing to give you this right (or if its taken from us), then whats to say the gov will start to take other rights as well?

 

VIVA LE REVOLUTION

[Clifford Automotive]

You my friend should go right now and kill yourself as you stand for nothing america was founded on. There is no fucking safety in listening to me tell my wife how I want to bang her or anything else that to me is fucking private.

 

Why would you by any facet think that by violating everyones privacy means they will catch anything? If every single call in america was sniffed then you would not do transacations that way.

 

Ok, Now its done by hand to hand notes. Now anytime you give something to someone in public you must show it to someone for review.

 

I mean come on where does it fucking stop?

 

They already knew 9/11 was going to happen and that all the intel said there was a high chance of something happening and they could not handle that small minuscule amount of information What the fuck makes you think that by listnening to everything and having more intel its going to make it any fucking easier.

 

 

 

You want a safe fucking america, here you go. We bring back our troops and guard our fucking borders. (Wow just stopped terroism 1. were not pissing poeple off in there country 2. its harder to get in) Ohh while were at it we just cut back the drugs coming in to. God damn look how much crime I stopped with out invading anyones fucking life.

 

God people who think like you piss me off as you don't see the big fucking picture the big picture is just because you THINK it might make you safer its ok.

 

 

My solution would stop tons of crimes as drugs being cut back means Crack heads wont be stealing shit as much, This goes down the fucking lione here . If the hijackers could not have got into america as easly as they did that would have changed things quite a bit.

 

The reason you have to get a fucking subpeona is called checks and balances. Go back read history and then make decision that affect everyones life.

 

 

I apolgize if you take this as a personal attack on you. Its a personal attack on your lack of understanding .

 

Where is the checks and balances that our goverment was supposed to be uilt on? Who watches the watchers? So If I hear you say something fucked up or even out of context I have a right to violate your life then? Drug test you ? DNA test you ? Go look at my other thread regarding BLOODTEST Dui stops. So is innocent till proven guilty not a issue with you?

 

How many times have you said or did something on the phone or in public that your happy no one videod or documented? I mean maybe you pissed ur pants drunk or fucked your wife. What ever? Have you ever said even 1 thing on the phone you would not want posted on CR?

 

Answer yes to those questions please. I will find every piece of data I can on you and post it all up on CR. I tell you now I will not do it with out your permision. If you doubt that I can find ANYTHING on you that you would not really want everyone to see ask pddqp. I showed him what I found and thats with out a wiretap.

 

Now imagine I'm JoeBlow who's job it is to get paid 13$ an hour to monitor calls. Do you think they would use high end people fuck no can't afford that. Now while at work I hear some funny ass shit maybe someone i know or maybe not.

 

Now say its a story similar to sam like storys or maybe so and so family went to jail what ever it is it was ment to be private. But I find it fucking funny so I post it online.

 

Thats a gross Violation of my privacy.

 

 

Ok, I'm going back to bed.

 

You should really rethink your stance on how crime is fought and what really protects.

 

 

All you propose is to watch more things. I can tell you in my job in the past I had to seen things go across the network in a normal routine procudure ( we were tracking down the source of a virus and capturing it to find out how it worked. This was part of my job.

 

I seen an email fly by showing X having a affair with Y. I was not supossed to see that shit. I Also seen X on adultfriendfinder.com X is married.

 

Was i looking for those things? NO It was my job to montior our Intrustion system. A string of text in his post tripped a alarm. When I went to investigate it. Now lets say I was a fucked up person I could have estorted him posted that shit online make it public.

 

 

Well I just read the articale and if you look at in a logical way...

 

It tells me that if I was a criminal I can not sue the carrier for giving the government my information. Here is a way you should look at it. Its really not your information and your privacy has nothing to do with it. You are using a companys network and there technology. You dont have the right to tell them they can not give "their" information away.

[Clifford Automotive]

Just in case you dont really know what Homeland Security is all about...

 

1. Prevent and disrupt terrorist attacks. To prevent and disrupt terrorist attacks in the United States, we are working to deny terrorists and terrorist-related weapons and materials entry into our country and across all international borders, disrupt terrorists' ability to operate within our borders, and prevent the emergence of violent Islamic radicalization in order to deny terrorists future recruits and to defeat homegrown extremism.

 

2. Protect the American people, our critical infrastructure, and key resources. To protect the lives and livelihoods of the American people, we must undertake measures to deter the threat of terrorism, mitigate the Nation's vulnerability to acts of terror and the full range of man-made and natural catastrophes, and minimize the consequences of an attack or disaster should it occur.

 

3. Respond to and recover from incidents that do occur. To save lives, mitigate suffering, and protect property in future catastrophes, we must strengthen the foundation of an effective, coordinated response. This includes clarifying roles and responsibilities across all levels of government and the private and non-profit sectors. We must also focus on ensuring we have the operational capabilities and flexibility necessary to facilitate both short-term recovery and an effective transition to long-term rebuilding and revitalization efforts.

 

4. Continue to strengthen the foundation to ensure our long-term success. To fulfill these responsibilities over the long term, we will continue to strengthen the principles, systems, structures, and institutions that cut across the homeland security enterprise and support our activities to secure the Homeland. Ultimately, this will help ensure the success of our Strategy to secure the Nation. This includes:

 

* Applying a comprehensive approach to risk management. We must apply a risk-based framework across all homeland security efforts in order to identify and assess potential hazards (including their downstream effects), determine what levels of relative risk are acceptable, and prioritize and allocate resources among all homeland security partners, both public and private, to prevent, protect against, and respond to and recover from all manner of incidents.

 

* Building a Culture of Preparedness. Our entire Nation shares common responsibilities in homeland security. In order to help prepare the Nation to carry out these responsibilities, we will continue to foster a Culture of Preparedness that permeates all levels of society – from individual citizens, businesses, and non-profit organizations to Federal, State, local, and Tribal government officials and authorities.

 

* Developing a comprehensive Homeland Security Management System. In order to continue strengthening the foundations of a prepared Nation, we will establish and institutionalize a comprehensive Homeland Security Management System that incorporates all stakeholders. This system involves a continuous, mutually reinforcing cycle of activity across four phases – guidance; planning; execution; and assessment and evaluation.

o Relevant departments and agencies of the Federal government must take the lead in implementing this system, and State, local, and Tribal governments are highly encouraged to ultimately adopt fully compatible and complementary processes and practices as part of a full-scale national effort.

o In order to ensure the success of this system, our Nation must further develop a community of homeland security professionals by establishing multidisciplinary education opportunities. In addition to covering homeland and relevant national security issues, this education should include an understanding and appreciation of appropriate regions, religions, cultures, legal systems, and languages. We also must continue to develop interagency and intergovernmental assignments and fellowship opportunities, tying them to promotions and professional advancement

 

* Improving incident management. We must develop a comprehensive approach to incident management that will help Federal, State, local, and Tribal authorities manage incidents across our goals of prevention, protection, and response and recovery. Our approach will build upon the existing National Incident Management System (NIMS) and help decision-making during crisis and periods of heightened concern.

 

* Better utilizing science and technology. The United States derives much of its strength from its advantage in science and technology, and we must continue to use this advantage and encourage innovative research and development to assist in protecting and defending against the range of natural and man-made threats confronting the Homeland.

 

* Using all instruments of national power and influence. The United States is using its instruments of national power and influence – diplomatic, information, military, economic, financial, intelligence, and law enforcement – to prevent terrorism, protect the lives and livelihoods of the American people, and respond to and recover from incidents. We must build on these efforts, by continuing to enhance our processes for sharing all relevant and appropriate information throughout all levels of government and with our partners, and by prioritizing the continued transformation of our law enforcement and military.

[thorne]

Yes and there doing such a good job at it so far. I'm happy that they delayed a music cd from coming out. I'm sure they are protecting us so well.

 

 

HomeLand security invades on the privacy of honestly people. Period. Just because there goal is to protect does not mean its ok.

 

 

Like I said I seen things about affairs at a previous job , Do you think that is something that they wanted me to se..

 

You don't have to be a terrorist to have a right to privacy, Thats the spin that people try to put on it. Hey If you got nothing to hide then why.. I'll tell you why.

 

The 4th

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

Privacy is a basic human right.

[thorne]

Some of your issues i agree with military stance so on so forth. My brother just got out of the air force i wanted him home more then anything.

 

But you avoided my entire example in everything i said.

 

Certain circumstances i have no problem with short cutting some paperwork to help solve a problem. Now if it is a case going to trial that they have weeks and months to set things up no reason to shortcut following the law.

 

I repo cars for a living(along with other things) and have done them for years. I know how much private information is so very easy to find. Its almost comical how easy it is to obtain information on any given person. I believe there are major flaws in the system that need fixed.

 

Thinking that someone who thinks my way is any less concerned is very flawed in there thinking. Politically standing me and you will never agree. But that by no means does not mean we dont agree on certain things.

 

But like i said in my original post in certain circumstances i think cutting a corner is a must.

 

Please dont try and catorgarize me grouped into "How people like you think" You dont know me or anything i stand for or believe. I stated my opinion and a very specific example of when i thought something like that should be acceptable. It may not have come out exactly how i wanted it to sound.

 

Political arguements are one of the reasons that this country is as strong as it is.

 

I agree and I wrote that out in a fit of anger, I had just read the other article i posted about. I did not mean to lump you up, I guesse I just hate in general when people see privacy in such a dull light.

 

I'm leaving my post the same as iots alreadly been quoted but my bad on the direct attack it was out of line.

 

Support Privacy.

 

 

Jones I'm off? Please explain how I'm off to support privacy, I think whats more off is using FUD to justify why its bad to fight to protect privacy.

[87GT]

All I can think about after reading this article is this...

 

Wiretapping is ok as long as they donate to the political party in power. It should be against the law to sue a company that violated your 4th amendment rights ...don't you know what when you sue a big corporation you're supporting the terrorists? Why do you hate America?

 

I don't care what the circumstance is, should be, could be, what if's etc... If you violate a "right" that I have as a US citizen then why do we even have rights? Might as well take all of them away.

 

If Captain America existed in real life he would be very upset at my last statement...

[87GT]

America

 

 

Fuck Yeah !

[Skinner]

I liked the world better when I was a kid it was alot simpler then.

[LJ]

Don't you agree to their terms of service when you use their network?

[87GT]

Don't you agree to their terms of service when you use their network?

 

 

Where in the TOS does it say anything about a warrantless transmission of data to a govt company?

[LJ]

Where in the TOS does it say anything about a warrantless transmission of data to a govt company?

 

There could be a clause stating that they will cooperate with authorities regarding your account at all times or something. and they are not gov't companies, they are agencies

[Skinner]

from verzons site

 

Your privacy is important to us

 

Verizon Wireless and its affiliates (the "Verizon Companies") provide services to you. In doing so, we may each collect certain information that is made available to us solely by virtue of our relationship with you, such as quantity, technical configuration, type, destination, location and amount of use of the telecommunications services you purchase. This information and related billing information is known as Customer Proprietary Network Information ("CPNI"). The Federal Communications Commission and other regulators require the Verizon Companies to protect your CPNI.

 

In order to better serve your communications needs and to provide products and services to meet your requirements, we need your permission to share this information among our affiliates, agents and parent companies (including Vodafone) and their subsidiaries. The protection of your information is important to us, and the Verizon Companies acknowledge that you have a right, and we have a duty, under federal and state law, to protect the confidentiality of your CPNI.

 

You have a right to keep your CPNI private by "opting out." Unless you provide us with notice that you wish to opt out within 30 days of us providing notice to you in your bill or through the mail, we will assume that you give the Verizon Companies the right to share your CPNI with the authorized companies as described above. You may opt out by calling us at 1-800-333-9956 and following the recorded directions.

 

TTY users can opt out by first dialing a telecommunications relay service (TRS) center via 711 in order to contact a TRS Communications Assistant (CA). Then, simply ask the CA to dial 1-800-333-9956 and notify us that you wish to opt out.

 

Please be advised that if you do not opt out, your consent will remain valid until we receive your notice withdrawing it. If you wish to withdraw your consent at any time, you may do so by calling us at 1-800-333-9956.

 

Furthermore, note that opting out will not affect the status of the services you currently have with the Verizon Companies. In addition, we can disclose your CPNI to comply with any laws, court order or subpoena, or to provide services to you pursuant to your Customer Agreement.

[LJ]

from verzons site

 

Your privacy is important to us

 

Verizon Wireless and its affiliates (the "Verizon Companies") provide services to you. In doing so, we may each collect certain information that is made available to us solely by virtue of our relationship with you, such as quantity, technical configuration, type, destination, location and amount of use of the telecommunications services you purchase. This information and related billing information is known as Customer Proprietary Network Information ("CPNI"). The Federal Communications Commission and other regulators require the Verizon Companies to protect your CPNI.

 

In order to better serve your communications needs and to provide products and services to meet your requirements, we need your permission to share this information among our affiliates, agents and parent companies (including Vodafone) and their subsidiaries. The protection of your information is important to us, and the Verizon Companies acknowledge that you have a right, and we have a duty, under federal and state law, to protect the confidentiality of your CPNI.

 

You have a right to keep your CPNI private by "opting out." Unless you provide us with notice that you wish to opt out within 30 days of us providing notice to you in your bill or through the mail, we will assume that you give the Verizon Companies the right to share your CPNI with the authorized companies as described above. You may opt out by calling us at 1-800-333-9956 and following the recorded directions.

 

TTY users can opt out by first dialing a telecommunications relay service (TRS) center via 711 in order to contact a TRS Communications Assistant (CA). Then, simply ask the CA to dial 1-800-333-9956 and notify us that you wish to opt out.

 

Please be advised that if you do not opt out, your consent will remain valid until we receive your notice withdrawing it. If you wish to withdraw your consent at any time, you may do so by calling us at 1-800-333-9956.

 

Furthermore, note that opting out will not affect the status of the services you currently have with the Verizon Companies. In addition, we can disclose your CPNI to comply with any laws, court order or subpoena, or to provide services to you pursuant to your Customer Agreement.

owned

[87GT]

I am going to call that phone number right now.

[87GT]

I did it for both of my phone lines. Took a few mins.

[stevethepirate]

ive been hearing A LOT of clicking at the beginning of phone calls. not sure if that has anything to do with this though (there are a few reasons why it could be happening)

 

PATRIOT act

Providing Appropriate tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism

they can use any of these tools which they deem necessary in order to prevent terrorism. pretty crazy if you ask me. some parts of it are definitely helping, other parts just blow!

[V8 Beast]

WTF! Thorne are you a terrorist thats upset that you might get caught?

 

Since you are so concerned about this what are you doing to combat it??? Last time I checked starting threads on a local forum does close to nothing for the big picture. Thats whats messed up with the world. People complain all the time, but do very little force a change. Out of the 1 billion people that agree with you, 9000 are actually getting off of their ass to try and make a change. In the end things keep getting worse because power in numbers can only occur when you actually have the numbers (lazy Americans FTL!).

 

Thorne, I'm going to need you to start a group and get together with at least 1000 people that agree with your outlook. The groups main purpose will be to protest and stop lost freedoms in the name of home security. With 1000+ people on your payroll you can use the idea of 3 degrees of seperation to branch out to millions and get your point across. If you start now you may be able to stop whats going on before we lose all of our freedoms. I know there are many group like this, but its obvious from your posts that they are failing miserably. Its time for you to step up and save America.... Thorne, you are now officially the chosen one!

[thorne]

If I had the bank roll I would. So I just support ron paul

 

WTF! Thorne are you a terrorist thats upset that you might get caught?

 

Since you are so concerned about this what are you doing to combat it??? Last time I checked starting threads on a local forum does close to nothing for the big picture. Thats whats messed up with the world. People complain all the time, but do very little force a change. Out of the 1 billion people that agree with you, 9000 are actually getting off of their ass to try and make a change. In the end things keep getting worse because power in numbers can only occur when you actually have the numbers (lazy Americans FTL!).

 

Thorne, I'm going to need you to start a group and get together with at least 1000 people that agree with your outlook. The groups main purpose will be to protest and stop lost freedoms in the name of home security. With 1000+ people on your payroll you can use the idea of 3 degrees of seperation to branch out to millions and get your point across. If you start now you may be able to stop whats going on before we lose all of our freedoms. I know there are many group like this, but its obvious from your posts that they are failing miserably. Its time for you to step up and save America.... Thorne, you are now officially the chosen one!