Traction Control: Do you use it?

[El Karacho1647545492]

TC is more for unpredictable weather like what we've got now...water/ice underneath a layer of snow/slush makes braking, turning, accelerating and avoiding other cars unpredictable. I hate it on my santa fe because the ABS kicks on super early and the TC almost never. then again there's nothing i don't hate about my santa fe.

[Crossle]

Some good reading in here. None of mine have TC, I find it easy enough to modulate accordingly with my under powered AWD car, but in a 2WD application it is nice to have.

[Mr. Jones]

ESP/Traction control can also screw you royally in a bad situation IMO.

 

Years ago, not thinking, (Probably a tad too fast).

I went into a round about, and the outer half was all slick as the plow picked up at the edge. I automatically tried to steer out of it and give power. ESP stepped in, cut power, and tried to brake the car instead, pretty much defeating my intent to try and power out of it with awd and pull it the other way out of the turn.

 

Same corner, esp off, the car had no problem pulling it away from the curb, and in the desired direction, spinning the tires with delight and control.

 

I understand that ESP doesn't really account for someone trying to avoid an obstacle by doing such things, but it really highlights it's shortcomings.

 

With ESP on, it expects you to always have the car's front end pointed where you want it and doing below the speed limit.

[Mallard]

ESP/Traction control can also screw you royally in a bad situation IMO.

I'm sure this could be true, but I have not found that situation in any of the vehicles I worked on.

 

I'm not sure if I correctly understood your scenario so let me clarify. You were entering a roundabout in the outside lane, which was icy. The car understeered, so you turned in deeper and hit the gas in order to kick the rear end out and drift through the corner?

 

I understand that ESP doesn't really account for someone trying to avoid an obstacle by doing such things, but it really highlights it's shortcomings.

It doesn't know the geometry or the road ahead so it could bring you under more control than necessary for a given corner, like your roundabout. However, understeer is very hard for ESC to correct for, compared to oversteer.

 

With ESP on, it expects you to always have the car's front end pointed where you want it and doing below the speed limit.

Actually, it expects you to be turning the direction you want to go. Doesn't matter where the front end is pointed. This is why you can spin a car with ESC out it you slowly and continually turn in. Once you counter steer you will very easily be over your entry threshold. Counter steer slowly and ESC may enter gradually. Saw at the wheel it it will come in harder and faster. It's very easy to drift a RWD or AWD with ESC, but the AWD's are much more fun.

 

The directional control doesn't care how fast your going, while torque control may hold you back a bit, depending on the estimated surface friction and curve radius.

[Mr. Jones]

I'm sure this could be true, but I have not found that situation in any of the vehicles I worked on.

 

I'm not sure if I correctly understood your scenario so let me clarify. You were entering a roundabout in the outside lane, which was icy. The car understeered, so you turned in deeper and hit the gas in order to kick the rear end out and drift through the corner?

 

 

It doesn't know the geometry or the road ahead so it could bring you under more control than necessary for a given corner, like your roundabout. However, understeer is very hard for ESC to correct for, compared to oversteer.

 

 

Actually, it expects you to be turning the direction you want to go. Doesn't matter where the front end is pointed. This is why you can spin a car with ESC out it you slowly and continually turn in. Once you counter steer you will very easily be over your entry threshold. Counter steer slowly and ESC may enter gradually. Saw at the wheel it it will come in harder and faster. It's very easy to drift a RWD or AWD with ESC, but the AWD's are much more fun.

 

The directional control doesn't care how fast your going, while torque control may hold you back a bit, depending on the estimated surface friction and curve radius.

 

 

It's fascinating to hear you describe it from the inside.

I'd probably have to diagram it to properly explain what I'm trying to convey.

But imagine, entering roundabout and trying to go straight through through it, so the 2nd exit. But do to to a giant icey lane and impending understeer, you steer left and floor it rotate the rear and "drift" away in a new direction with all 4 tires now parallel to my previous direction.

 

With ESC, on step1, it's already saying WTF are you doing turning the wheel that sharply, we're slipping, and it applies brakes, you try to power oversteer and it cuts power, really inducing even more understeer plowing you right into said object.

 

Without ESC, car rotates and power gradually pulls away from my original intended direction, and carries me to my next point with all 4 tires whirring away.

[Mallard]

It's fascinating to hear you describe it from the inside.

I'd probably have to diagram it to properly explain what I'm trying to convey.

But imagine, entering roundabout and trying to go straight through through it, so the 2nd exit. But do to to a giant icey lane and impending understeer, you steer left and floor it rotate the rear and "drift" away in a new direction with all 4 tires now parallel to my previous direction.

You mean perpendicular?

 

With ESC, on step1, it's already saying WTF are you doing turning the wheel that sharply, we're slipping, and it applies brakes, you try to power oversteer and it cuts power, really inducing even more understeer plowing you right into said object.

 

Without ESC, car rotates and power gradually pulls away from my original intended direction, and carries me to my next point with all 4 tires whirring away.

 

Yeah, it sounds like what I thought. The problem is understeer is very hard to control. You can brake the inside rear wheel, but too much brake will induce oversteer (like pulling the e-brake), so some cars apply brakes to some or all the wheels in order to slow the car down. I think you got into heavy understeer control. Had you been in "sport mode," i.e. brakes only, no engine control, you may have been able to power out of it as well.

[Mr. Jones]

You mean perpendicular?

 

 

 

Yeah, it sounds like what I thought. The problem is understeer is very hard to control. You can brake the inside rear wheel, but too much brake will induce oversteer (like pulling the e-brake), so some cars apply brakes to some or all the wheels in order to slow the car down. I think you got into heavy understeer control. Had you been in "sport mode," i.e. brakes only, no engine control, you may have been able to power out of it as well.

 

Yes, thank you.

 

This is eons ago on a car without any "sport", just full on rape, or nothing at all.

Nothing at all seems to work better on older cars.:fuuuu:

 

With the new stuff, I am in agreement. I've never had an occasion to take the TTRS out of "sport" and into full off, short of AutoX, where will occasionally get uneasy when the rear end swings around quickly.

 

It will let you flat out drift an offramp without any intervention, which is good in my book.

[Forrest Gump 9]

I run my best time at the track with traction control on so yes, I drive my car with TC on 99% of the time.

[thorne]

Yes, and GM simply sets them up to snap the trottle closed on most cars.

 

yeah pretty lame. I typical switch them to a timing cut strategy and dial it in, because from the factory Vette's and Camaros BLOW

[Tindall2006]

On the Vette I like it... When I picked it up it was raining, and I had only driven a honda civic for the past three years. Needless to say it saved my ass a few times.

[thorne]

On the Vette I like it... When I picked it up it was raining, and I had only driven a honda civic for the past three years. Needless to say it saved my ass a few times.

 

Once you boost these cars the TC system is pretty bad with out tweaking

[Tindall2006]

I have been looking for a Twin turbo Setup... Not sure if a procharger would be any good.

 

Needless to say, I will probably be contacting with once I get to this point.

[Trouble Maker]

Once you boost these cars the TC system is pretty bad with out tweaking

 

How are you 'tweaking' the TC?

[PRD2BDF]

I leave the VDC on the Maxima on since I don't like having to push the button all the time. Plus the VDC is reasonably complaint with the way I drive. It has saved my ass when I enter a curve too fast and the fucking county decides to dump a ton of salt on the road.

[Not Brian]

It's not that I make a point to use it, I just don't bother not using it. I turn the key and drive.

[OGRE]

I think they made that stuff for girls.

 

this.

 

traction control has on a few occasions only gotten me up part of a snowy driveway, then after backing down, turning of the supposed "drive aid" i would make it up and maybe displacing a little more gravel

[V8 Beast]

I'd probably have to diagram it to properly explain what I'm trying to convey.

...

You mean how Lightning Mcqueen turned the wheels right to go left in the classic Disney movie Cars..

[thorne]

How are you 'tweaking' the TC?

 

By dialing in TQ tables and controlling how much timing gets pulled when TCS steps in. depends on the ecu i'm working with.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Thorne

[SRTurbo04]

i use it on the race car all the time. no sense in turning it off