Need a concealed carry permit to open carry?

[chevysoldier]

Well the family and I went out to day to celebrate our independence. A parade and fireworks with an openly carried gun on my hip. After the parade we decided to go to Gander Mountain in Reynoldsburg. On the front door is a sign that says something to the effect of "All weapons and bows must be checked at the front desk except those persons carrying a weapon openly or concealed as allowed by law. So I am fine.

I am inside for about 10 minutes when a associate makes a bee line straight for me. He asked if I was law enforcement and I informed him I am not. He then asked if I had a CHL. I said yes and he wanted to see it. So I showed it to him. I asked why he needed to see it, if that was store policy or not. He said well you can't open carry without a CHL. I said you sure can. He asked if I didn't need a CHL to open carry why did I have one. Informed him of the motor vehicle law. He was not aware of that law or that OC of a firearm without a CHL was legal. He let me be.

After about 10 more minutes of looking around I stopped someone else and asked to speak to the store manager. I was flabbergasted when the same guy that stopped me the first time was the store manager. So I showed him in the AG handbook the few sentences about CC laws do not regulate OC in Ohio. It really amazed me that a place like this wouldn't know that OC'ing in Ohio does not require a permit. I think I will OC in there in a month or two to see if I am treated differently.

Looking back I don't think I should have shown him my CHL because I didn't need it. This was my first time being confronted by someone who acted this way towards be so it kind of threw me for a loop.

[speedytriple]

For gander mnt being a sporting goods store and selling handguns they are way uptight! The one by me is the same way. I asked if a holster fit my gun, and when the sales guy did not know I asked if I could check my gun to see if it fit. He about flipped out and had the manager over there right away. Same story showed him my chl and he left. But they do seem uptight.

[ReconRat]

The entire problem with OC is the "inducing panic" in a public place. Sort of like jay walking, it's hard to get around that one.

[max power]

Dude, you were confronted by a retail store manager. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesnt know shit about the laws just because his store sells guns. Gander Mountain might as well sell panties.

I wouldnt spend any money there. That store is a joke.

[hue jass]

It would be better if you could just conceal and carry.

[speedytriple]

So if I o.c. while jay walking I am going to get stopped by the po-po? LOL!

[chevysoldier]

For gander mnt being a sporting goods store and selling handguns they are way uptight! The one by me is the same way. I asked if a holster fit my gun, and when the sales guy did not know I asked if I could check my gun to see if it fit. He about flipped out and had the manager over there right away. Same story showed him my chl and he left. But they do seem uptight.

I just would think they would know laws that are relevant to them. They are a big enough company they should have a few lawyers that look into stuff like that.

The entire problem with OC is the "inducing panic" in a public place. Sort of like jay walking, it's hard to get around that one.

There are court cases that show an openly carried gun is not grounds for inducing panic or even probable cause. It's too late to find them though.

Dude, you were confronted by a retail store manager. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesnt know shit about the laws just because his store sells guns. Gander Mountain might as well sell panties.

I wouldnt spend any money there. That store is a joke.

I usually only go in to check ammo prices. They only stuff I have bought there are a IWB holster for my .32 and a like 1o years a go a backpack. Don't think I am going to spend any money there.

It would be better if you could just conceal and carry.

But avoiding the problem doesn't fix the problem. Too many people are scared of guns and think they are the devil. I like to exercise my right to openly carry a gun. I also look at it since I am doing nothing illegal why should I hide what I am doing. Because other people might be offended or not like it?

[max power]

You know their ammo prices are going to be higher than anyone else, just like their handguns prices.

Otherwise, I completely agree, you should be allowed to openly carry anywhere as long as you are a law abiding citizen.

[ReconRat]

Actually, it's easier to get in trouble with a Bowie knife on your belt. There is a clear law against that. And for other large blades, like Katanas, which is probably why we never see Ninjas walking around on the street...

[Uncle Punk]

I would have never showed him my license or expected him to know the law. You should have expected to be confronted when exercising your right to fix the problem and not have been thrown for a loop. To fain indignation at a situation you create is a little whiney and disingenuous because I am sure this treatment could have been foreseen especially since you feel the need to fix a problem. Good luck with that, there is an overabundance of ignorant out there and plenty more being created all the time. While it might be a noble endeavor you will find it to be a never-ending uphill battle that can only put your family in jeopardy if you don't have a better plan while going into it.

You can't be charged with inducing panic while conducting yourself in a legal manor or you have a good chance to win some money from the government coffers. This is not to say you won't be harassed by the ignorant but if you are legal you don't need to worry. In some neighborhoods if you walk down the street wearing a bandana and dew rag with your pants hanging around your thighs you could be inducing panic but you can't be charged with it because you are behaving in a perfectly legal manor.

[ReconRat]

What I mean by jaywalking, is that it can be a harassment charge, with no defense. OC may have a defense, but it can still be harassment, whether ignorant, deliberate, or simply a local law that doesn't comply with state.

[chevysoldier]

I would have never showed him my license or expected him to know the law. You should have expected to be confronted when exercising your right to fix the problem and not have been thrown for a loop. To fain indignation at a situation you create is a little whiney and disingenuous because I am sure this treatment could have been foreseen especially since you feel the need to fix a problem. Good luck with that, there is an overabundance of ignorant out there and plenty more being created all the time. While it might be a noble endeavor you will find it to be a never-ending uphill battle that can only put your family in jeopardy if you don't have a better plan while going into it.

You can't be charged with inducing panic while conducting yourself in a legal manor or you have a good chance to win some money from the government coffers. This is not to say you won't be harassed by the ignorant but if you are legal you don't need to worry. In some neighborhoods if you walk down the street wearing a bandana and dew rag with your pants hanging around your thighs you could be inducing panic but you can't be charged with it because you are behaving in a perfectly legal manor.

I agree I should have never had shown him my license. I also admit that figuring a place, especially the store manager of a place that dealt with firearms would be a little more aware of the laws was a stupid assumption on my part. But being a private establishment can they not require me to have a CHL even when open carrying on their premises? Sure that is dumb but so is posting no guns signs.

What threw me was how he approached me. I have had people question me before but never with that kind of force. I knew I was well within the law so I wasn't worried about getting in trouble. I know I didn't handle everything how I should but that why I posted. I welcome criticism. I knew you'd post up on this too, you always do in gun related stuff. Will this keep me from openly carrying my sidearm? No, not a chance. I learned a lot and will be better armed with my head next time.

In a month or two I'll go back again, or maybe a different store. I'll openly carry just like I usually do. I want to see if their policy changes. Just because this may be a never-ending uphill battle doesn't mean it isn't a battle worth fighting. I have talked to many people who say they want to open carry but are too scared. If you and I and everyone else would open carry the rest of the public would take notice. But that will never happen if everyone just says it's too much trouble, too risky, too much work.

[Uncle Punk]

They can require you to wear purple socks if they want to but why would they? I do not understand your expectation of them making up their own rules. They can make up all kinds of rules however dumb we find them to be. Information on their store policies is readily available and if you are going to fight the cause you should know your enemy better, unless you expect to lose. If being approached with force throws you off of your game you should be studied more to give yourself a firmer standing in your resolve.

I admire your youthful idealistic exuberance with wanting to educate the masses and I agree the fight shouldn't need fighting. I don't want to interact with that many people out in public, especially people who don't share my same views and values. If I were to see you carrying you would get zero reaction from me but you can expect to get a reaction from people who most likely aren't going to have their minds changed, I really don't need them wasting my time. If they were actively trying to change the open carry laws that might be a different story but it's a constitutionally protected right in the state of Ohio so I'm not going to fight a fight that isn't there because open carry isn't going away nor is anyone trying to take it away at this time. Just because others don't agree or like the fact that you open carry doesn't mean they need learning to see your way of thinking, if that's the case why don't you go around and educate them in other views you have.

I carry owb and don't care if anyone can tell if I'm carrying. I will also open carry if it's convenient for me but I don't try to confront anyone nor will I allow them to confront me in a forceful manor without resistance in kind. Law enforcement is different and I am fairly confident I comply with the laws whether they know them or not so those potential confrontations don't worry me.

[chevysoldier]

They can require you to wear purple socks if they want to but why would they? I do not understand your expectation of them making up their own rules. They can make up all kinds of rules however dumb we find them to be. Information on their store policies is readily available and if you are going to fight the cause you should know your enemy better, unless you expect to lose. If being approached with force throws you off of your game you should be studied more to give yourself a firmer standing in your resolve.

I admire your youthful idealistic exuberance with wanting to educate the masses and I agree the fight shouldn't need fighting. I don't want to interact with that many people out in public, especially people who don't share my same views and values. If I were to see you carrying you would get zero reaction from me but you can expect to get a reaction from people who most likely aren't going to have their minds changed, I really don't need them wasting my time. If they were actively trying to change the open carry laws that might be a different story but it's a constitutionally protected right in the state of Ohio so I'm not going to fight a fight that isn't there because open carry isn't going away nor is anyone trying to take it away at this time. Just because others don't agree or like the fact that you open carry doesn't mean they need learning to see your way of thinking, if that's the case why don't you go around and educate them in other views you have.

I carry owb and don't care if anyone can tell if I'm carrying. I will also open carry if it's convenient for me but I don't try to confront anyone nor will I allow them to confront me in a forceful manor without resistance in kind. Law enforcement is different and I am fairly confident I comply with the laws whether they know them or not so those potential confrontations don't worry me.

My point with them making up any rule they want was my reason for showing my CHL. To comply with their policy as that was how the guy presented it to me.

The only rule I need to know before going into the store is if they have a no gun sign posted on the front door. If they don't post and then I get asked to leave, I leave.

I don't go out and tell everyone I have a gun. If they see it, so be it. Actually many of the people that do confront me seem to change their views after we chat. I don't start any confrontation about guns, ever.

No, they aren't trying to change the OC laws at this time. But where will you be carrying if 95% of establishments are posted no guns? Sure they haven't taken your right away to carry a gun on the sidewalk, but you can't go to the grocery store anymore. What happens if the same negative views about guns are allowed to go on unchanged? which would be an easier fight? Now or later if it is allowed to get to the point where something major needs to be done?

You are fighting the fight though. Just by you OC'ing you are "normalizing" that behavior. It's no different than hearing cuss words on TV anymore, it's been normalized.

[Uncle Punk]

I carry everywhere I go except where prohibited by law. Where I grocery shop at there are not any signs about guns. 100% of the establishments I go to could post a no guns sign and that won't change where I carry. I do believe they have the right to post the sign on private property but by doing so they don't turn me into a criminal. If ever asked to leave I will never return but that hasn't happened yet and I don't expect it to.

The guy presented you with an incorrect policy and you should have known that going in was my point earlier.

Exercising your right is fine but I don't feel the need to educate everyone around me about all the laws I find valuable especially when no one is actively trying to change them. I think the drunken driving laws are fine but I am not going out with the MADD crowd to tell everyone about them.

[oldschoolsdime92]

You know their ammo prices are going to be higher than anyone else, just like their handguns prices.

Otherwise, I completely agree, you should be allowed to openly carry anywhere as long as you are a law abiding citizen.

i bet to differ, ours in huber heights has decent gun prices, along with cheaper than walmart ammo prices. Just stay away from the "used" section because the prices will damn near be the same.

[max power]

i bet to differ, ours in huber heights has decent gun prices, along with cheaper than walmart ammo prices. Just stay away from the "used" section because the prices will damn near be the same.

The one in Reynoldsburg is high on everything.

[jblosser]

The one in Reynoldsburg is high on everything.

I'll bet they would, Panama Red...

I believe folks smarter than me call this "a teaching moment".

The manager of the store <should> know the law. If he (or corporate) doesn't want guns in the store, they can post a sign at the entrance. If they want to say that you need your CHL to OC/CC in their store, that is their right.

I don't OC except on my property. Just attracts attention that I don't want. I fully and unequivocally endorse your right to do so, though.

Edited July 4, 2010 by jblosser
adjusted Meet the Parents quote

[kawi kid]

i never had a problem with them when i took my gun in...... i walked right back to the gun counter and said i got my gun and i need your help to figure out what size hip holster i need. the guy was really nice maybe it was cuz i was on crutches too.

[C-bus]

Between looking at a new Ruger Single six and buying it two days later, Gander R-burg raised the price $40 on every gun stating that they now include "free" gunsmithing foe a year.

[jmwildi]

If you and I and everyone else would open carry the rest of the public would take notice. But that will never happen if everyone just says it's too much trouble, too risky, too much work.

This reminds me of several years ago when everyone was lobbying for the concealed carry law to get passed. Some organizations put together alot of mass open carry demonstrations across the state. At every location for one of these demonstrations the local police were notified well in advance and the route for the open carry marches was all planned out. I went to one in Gahana and durring the two miles of the march we were trailed by police and instructed only to open carry on the march and at the assembly area. This was to avoid being harrassed by any of the police or local citizens. After the march one guy, with his wife and two kids, went into a local ice cream store, still open carrying. He was stopped and detain by the Gahana PD, his weapon was confiscated and he ws let go. Having done nothing wrong he still had to jump through several hoops just to get his gun back from the PD.

Durring the march we got alot of supportive looks and waves from people in cars but we also got an equal number of unsupportive looks and gestures. I don't think tons of people openly carrying would really change anything other than how much we would all get stopped and bothered by store managers, police, or regular people who think it's their "job" to try and "correct" you; kind of like those anti-smoking nazis who see someone light up and then come over to spew out all their facts about how smoking is bad and you shouldn't do it.

Even though you're well within the law to open carry, for me, being bothered that much is too much hasstle. That's why I have a CCW and why I conceal my gun when I carry. I will admit though that many of the local and state law enforcement officers and agencies have become much more well informed about the state's firearm laws since the first few years of the CCW law being in effect. Most of this is academic though. If you want to open carry I fully support your right to do so but I would also expect to be stopped every once in a while and asked what you're doing; not everyone knows the laws and even some that do don't agree with them and have no trouble letting other people know it. Just my 0.02

[kreator]

I'll bet they would, Panama Red...

I believe folks smarter than me call this "a teaching moment".

The manager of the store <should> know the law. If he (or corporate) doesn't want guns in the store, they can post a sign at the entrance. If they want to say that you need your CHL to OC/CC in their store, that is their right.

I don't OC except on my property. Just attracts attention that I don't want. I fully and unequivocally endorse your right to do so, though.

100% correct, I open carry on my property, why would you open carry anyway? Yes, it's your right, but there are clear laws against causing panic. Gander Mountain is nothing more than a sporting gooods chain store, that manager prob makes 40K, not enough to put up with people trying to start an crap with them about CCL. If you want to make a diffrence write the company a letter or something, walking in there and refusing to show your CCL is just making you look like you want to start trouble.

[chevysoldier]

100% correct, I open carry on my property, why would you open carry anyway? Yes, it's your right, but there are clear laws against causing panic. Gander Mountain is nothing more than a sporting gooods chain store, that manager prob makes 40K, not enough to put up with people trying to start an crap with them about CCL. If you want to make a diffrence write the company a letter or something, walking in there and refusing to show your CCL is just making you look like you want to start trouble.

Openly carrying a firearm is not inducing panic.

Klein vs. Leis, 99 Ohio St.3d 537 (Sept. 24, 2003)

Openly carrying a firearm does not mean that the person is automatically guilty of Disorderly Conduct (R.C. 2917.11) or Inducing Panic (R.C. 2817.31). Each case must be judged on it's own set of facts.

[kreator]

Openly carrying a firearm is not inducing panic.

Klein vs. Leis, 99 Ohio St.3d 537 (Sept. 24, 2003)

Correct, but if the situation was to escalate your actions could easily be seen as disorderly conduct because you open carried for no reason other than you wanted someone to challenge your right to do so.

[MidgetTodd]

Openly carrying a firearm is not inducing panic.

Klein vs. Leis, 99 Ohio St.3d 537 (Sept. 24, 2003)

You know I like you Chebby so don't take this wrong but ......... Why man why? I wont open carry in public, it sends a message and the wrong one at that. And yes it does induce a panic in most people that don't own a gun, granted not in the eyes of the law but yes it most certainly does in the eyes of the public. I guarantee you people will be calling 911 when they see you walking around with the gun displayed on your hip as well as complaining to the manager in stores when they see you. This complaint will also push the store to post signs for no carry.

It is your right and it is legal, but why bother and why provoke a problem?

And on top of that if someone is there to rob the place or what not you'll be the first target because they know you're armed so there goes your element of surprise to assist in the incident.