Trayvon Martin case will not go to the Grand Jury

[crb]

Because the laws are similar enough and we all know the URL to ORC.

Moot, really, since Magley has stormed off.

He will be back I'm sure.

[LINK]

When one person feels their life is in danger!

Case in point, thank you!

[Steve Butters]

I guess I'm one dead motherfucker then

If I'm visiting family in your neighborhood, and decide to walk to the store for some candy and you confront me, and start hassling me with your gun, I'm gonna tell you to go fuck yourself. You have no rights, no authority, and no business bothering me for walking down a street. REGARDLESS of my fashion sense.

exactly. i wear my hood up quite often, you know, to keep my fucking ears warm.....if somebody was hassling me for no reason, i would tell them to fuck of too...and if they pulled a gun and were hassling me they better be prepared to use it because as soon as i see them pull it, im going for mine

and turning an easy interaction into a hostile encounter and possibly violent. Therefore you now get to deal with those consequences

the other person would be turning it into a hostile encounter....if im walking down the street minding my own business and some asshole wanna-be cop neighborhood watch commando comes up and starts harassing me or stalking me, THAT is turning it into a hostile encounter

OK wait...say that again? If someone is walking down your street at 10:30 at night in a hoodie with it pulled up over their head you are going to grab your gun and follow them? As if you would be sitting in your living room and saw them through the window and they were walking by on the sidewalk? Or are you on your front porch minding your own business while they walked by minding their own business when you decided to grab your shootin' iron and follow them out on public property just to see what they are up to? Are you hoping they just keep walking? Are you waiting on them to turn and walk back towards the person stalking them who now has no more right to be out there on the street than they do and confront them about why you're following him? At what point do you decide to send rounds down the sidewalk? Just curious, see. Cuz that's doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

i agree....i like brian and everything, but i really thought he was smarter than this....following some random person who looks "suspicious" is just plain stupid... keep an eye out, sure....leave your property to pursue them? wow.

To me I think it depends on the neighborhood. If I'm at my Dad's house in Parma I don't think I'd follow but I'd surely keep an eye out

My place here, I would indeed follow and I've done that twice in the 3 years I've lived here. Its a neighborhood where you can pretty much recognize everyone and can tell when someone out of the ordinary is lurking

if something is that off, call the police and mention what you saw and then keep an eye out around your property to protect yourself....it isnt your job to play police officer and run down "shady" people

Brian, you and I have treaded upon a lot of the same NEO ground. Certainly, some neighborhoods are more rife with the riff raff than others. Keeping an eye out is something I always do. Getting up from the confines of your property, packing heat and following someone isn't self defense. It's inviting the opportunity to incite a violent act. If some dude is cutting through my yard back between houses? Hell yes I am arming myself and protecting my family and home. But I sure as hell won't leave them and go all Wyatt Earp down a city sidewalk. I call the cops, explain what I saw, then take necessary action should things escalate in my confines. Protecting my castle is my responsibility above all others. Protecting the neighborhood is the responsibility of the North Ridgeville PD. Want the law to protect you? Don't take it into your own hands unnecessarily. That's all I'm saying.

^^ winner....and this is the same way i feel about the topic of this thread....the dude should have never even made contact with this kid....if i was in the kids position just walking down the street and some dude came up harassing me for no reason, i would probably punch his ass too....mr tough guy thought he was the shit, and once he picked a fight he couldnt back up he resorted to using a gun....no matter how this case turns out legally, he is a major pussy and an even bigger douche for trying to pretend he is a cop

I probably should have mentioned I kept enough distance and cover to not draw attention to myself. I can't fight for shit so I truly keep it on me to protect myself if there were an issue. If anything shady happened I'd probably be labeled a woose by some but I'd probably call the police before intervening myself unless someones life was in danger

by following, you are already intervening... and thats even worse, not being able to fight.....you knowingly pursue someone, with no intentions other than 1. letting them go, or 2. shooting them.....its not your job to decide either of those things....if youre that worried about a certain person, call the police and let them know...it actually does work....i had a guy make up some bogus story and try to walk through my front door...i pushed his ass back outside and slammed the door...called the police to report suspicious activity and less than 15 minutes later there was a sheriff outside patrolling the neighborhood and he stopped afterwards to take my statement.....guess i should have kicked the guy out, grabbed my gun, and started following him....you know, just in case

[Scruit]

He will be back I'm sure.

He seems to be that personality type.

I readily accept that I am too logical a lot of the time, and I find it too easy to disassociate myself from emotion. Even when my mother died and we were discussing legal options for a malpractice suit I was able to look at it from a purely legal/logical perspective that resulted in no suit going ahead.

So because of that I find it frustrating when someone argues from a purely emotional perspective and simple does not listen to logic.

My opinion on a topic can change from one extreme to another (or anywhere between) based upon a good logical argument. Some folks can't be changed. I betcha he still things that a driver stopped at a red light who gets rear-ended by a speeding biker should stand trial for the biker's death (a position he advocated when he said any death, including traffic accidents, should go to trial) If he really thinks that then all I can do is shake my head and save my breath for someone who can listen to reason.

(If he wasn't going to come back before, he will now )

[Steve Butters]

I am a fifty year old white guy with grey hair. I put on my nice suit and watch. I get dropped off in a bad part of Columbus or Cleveland and start walking down the street at 10:30 at night. I bet I wouldn't make it three blocks before I get rolled. The next morning they find me dead naked and no witnesses at all to talk to. The newspaper article and news report would say I must have been looking for drugs or hookers. I have no business there. Its not my neighborhood. If you don't belong in a neighborhood the residents will know. They will watch and follow you out because you have no business there. He was most likely up to something. Why didn't he just tell Zimmerman he was walking home? WHY WAS HE HIDING HIS FACE?

most likely up to something? he was there with his father visiting his fathers fiance....he had every right to be there.

hiding his face? he was wearing a fucking hood.....seriously? are you retarded? i wear my hood all the time....you know, to keep my ears warm, kind of what a HOODIE is for....whats next? we gonna shoot people for wearing gloves in the winter time? because obviously they were trying to hide their finger prints, no way they had cold fingers

[crb]

He seems to be that personality type.

I readily accept that I am too logical a lot of the time, and I find it too easy to disassociate myself from emotion. Even when my mother died and we were discussing legal options for a malpractice suit I was able to look at it from a purely legal/logical perspective that resulted in no suit going ahead.

So because of that I find it frustrating when someone argues from a purely emotional perspective and simple does not listen to logic.

My opinion on a topic can change from one extreme to another (or anywhere between) based upon a good logical argument. Some folks can't be changed. I betcha he still things that a driver stopped at a red light who gets rear-ended by a speeding biker should stand trial for the biker's death (a position he advocated when he said any death, including traffic accidents, should go to trial) If he really thinks that then all I can do is shake my head and save my breath for someone who can listen to reason.

(If he wasn't going to come back before, he will now )

Me too! I can see both sides in most cases where a lot of people can't, my wife being one. I don't know if he us guilty or innocent until all the facts come out! I can see multiple ways it could have went down, but we still don't know step by step how it actually went down.

[Bad324]

i agree....i like brian and everything, but i really thought he was smarter than this....following some random person who looks "suspicious" is just plain stupid... keep an eye out, sure....leave your property to pursue them? wow.

if something is that off, call the police and mention what you saw and then keep an eye out around your property to protect yourself....it isnt your job to play police officer and run down "shady" people

by following, you are already intervening... and thats even worse, not being able to fight.....you knowingly pursue someone, with no intentions other than 1. letting them go, or 2. shooting them.....its not your job to decide either of those things....if youre that worried about a certain person, call the police and let them know...it actually does work....i had a guy make up some bogus story and try to walk through my front door...i pushed his ass back outside and slammed the door...called the police to report suspicious activity and less than 15 minutes later there was a sheriff outside patrolling the neighborhood and he stopped afterwards to take my statement.....guess i should have kicked the guy out, grabbed my gun, and started following him....you know, just in case

i lived in the ghetto for 4 years and did not own a gun or CHL and proceeded in the same manner. Its not that I can't fight but I'm lazy and if something can protect me better than my own 2 fists then by god I'm going to use it as a last measure. Same as anything you buy to serve a purpose

I've dealt with some shit living down there and saw some things that were a small shock to my suburban ass. I learned not to just stand by idol because you can prevent a lot of crap and pain. I will surely be labeled as an aggressive meddling pussy then ever let the things that happen to 2 friends that could've been prevented had I thought ahead and taken some action

[crb]

most likely up to something? he was there with his father visiting his fathers fiance....he had every right to be there.

hiding his face? he was wearing a fucking hood.....seriously? are you retarded? i wear my hood all the time....you know, to keep my ears warm, kind of what a HOODIE is for....whats next? we gonna shoot people for wearing gloves in the winter time? because obviously they were trying to hide their finger prints, no way they had cold fingers

At what point was the gun pulled?

Did Zimmerman confront trayvone before he was (supposedly) attacked from behind?

Does following someone give the person being followed the right to stalk and attack the follower? Grind their face in the concrete? Lay theirs hands on them at all?

[Steve Butters]

At what point was the gun pulled?

Did Zimmerman confront trayvone before he was (supposedly) attacked from behind?

Does following someone give the person being followed the right to stalk and attack the follower? Grind their face in the concrete? Lay theirs hands on them at all?

reading comprehension. try it out.

the post you quoted is my defense for the logic of "he was hiding his face, so obviously he was up to something" and the logic of "he shouldnt have been in that neighborhood because he didnt belong" when in all reality he did

i didnt mention a gun, or being stalked, or any of that shit....if you honestly think a person deserves to be harassed and shot for wearing their fucking hood up, then youre fucking retarded, just like the guy i quoted with that response

[Exarch]

Case in point, thank you!

Case in point? Seriously? Umm nooo.... Not case in point.... Someone almost hit my bike yesterday on woodman cuz they wernt paying attention, I felt my life was in danger, so does that mean I could of pulled out my glock and poped a cap in her ass?? That whole 'i felt my life is in danger' line is a crock of shit. Hell my buddy got a gun pulled on him by soke.dumbass at bw3s lastyear in Huber. My buddy took that fuckers gun and beat the tar out that guy. He could of just as easily shot him with the gun he took, but he isnt se pussy ass bitch who has to kill someoje cuz his life was in danger. Also he was properly trained to deal with situations like that(12y MC) although the guy my buddy was with threw his eallet on the ground and ran like a bitch. I wasnt there for this incident, but im pretty sure its true cuz there were quite a few.witnesses.stating.what happend. I dunno what I would of done, I was takin a shit at the time. But MY CASE IN POINT is your.case in point is wrong. Most people dont kill other people cuz they feel their life is in danger, otherwise there would be dead bodies everywhere...

[Scruit]

exactly. i wear my hood up quite often, you know, to keep my fucking ears warm.....if somebody was hassling me for no reason, i would tell them to fuck of too...and if they pulled a gun and were hassling me they better be prepared to use it because as soon as i see them pull it, im going for mine

the other person would be turning it into a hostile encounter....if im walking down the street minding my own business and some asshole wanna-be cop neighborhood watch commando comes up and starts harassing me or stalking me, THAT is turning it into a hostile encounter

i agree....i like brian and everything, but i really thought he was smarter than this....following some random person who looks "suspicious" is just plain stupid... keep an eye out, sure....leave your property to pursue them? wow.

if something is that off, call the police and mention what you saw and then keep an eye out around your property to protect yourself....it isnt your job to play police officer and run down "shady" people

^^ winner....and this is the same way i feel about the topic of this thread....the dude should have never even made contact with this kid....if i was in the kids position just walking down the street and some dude came up harassing me for no reason, i would probably punch his ass too....mr tough guy thought he was the shit, and once he picked a fight he couldnt back up he resorted to using a gun....no matter how this case turns out legally, he is a major pussy and an even bigger douche for trying to pretend he is a cop

by following, you are already intervening... and thats even worse, not being able to fight.....you knowingly pursue someone, with no intentions other than 1. letting them go, or 2. shooting them.....its not your job to decide either of those things....if youre that worried about a certain person, call the police and let them know...it actually does work....i had a guy make up some bogus story and try to walk through my front door...i pushed his ass back outside and slammed the door...called the police to report suspicious activity and less than 15 minutes later there was a sheriff outside patrolling the neighborhood and he stopped afterwards to take my statement.....guess i should have kicked the guy out, grabbed my gun, and started following him....you know, just in case

All good points. Following Martin was an unwise for an untrained person to do. I would not follow a suspicious person myself. However, it was not illegal, so Zimmerman had every right to politely ask Martin what he was doing. And Martin had every right to tell him to pound sand.

Also, he was neighborhood watch - a position recognized by the police. Although I don't know if "patrolling" is an activity the police recommend. I certainly see this as being a crossroads for neighborhood watch type groups, setting new ground rules. Either barring the concept of patrolling, setting rules for it, or even creating a training program to allow such volunteers to patrol more safely...

Also, are you suggesting that Zimmerman had his gun out when he approached martin? That is not a claim I've heard supported by any of the evidence released so far.

- Did Martin attack Zimmerman, and when? (Martin did NOT have the right to attack Zimmerman, whether during the first conversation or the second), and

- WHEN did Zimmerman draw his gun? Zimmerman did NOT have the right to draw his gun at any time other than when he felt his life was in danger. People have this image of Zimmerman approaching Martin with the gun out already - but I've not heard evidence to that effect. I've heard claims that the gun came into play only after Martin commenced his physical attack and subsequently discovered the holstered gun / tried to take it. Even that is just a claim, and the investigators must verify or refute it as part of the deliberations.

These are the two key questions that need to be answered by the investigators

[RVTPilot]

I am a fifty year old white guy with grey hair. I put on my nice suit and watch. I get dropped off in a bad part of Columbus or Cleveland and start walking down the street at 10:30 at night. I bet I wouldn't make it three blocks before I get rolled. The next morning they find me dead naked and no witnesses at all to talk to. The newspaper article and news report would say I must have been looking for drugs or hookers. I have no business there. Its not my neighborhood. If you don't belong in a neighborhood the residents will know. They will watch and follow you out because you have no business there. He was most likely up to something. Why didn't he just tell Zimmerman he was walking home? WHY WAS HE HIDING HIS FACE?

So your rather unlikely scenario above is justification for you following someone around your neighborhood armed and at the ready? I get that a) folks know their neighborhoods and see when someone out of the ordinary comes through, and b) being someplace you don't belong. In Martin's case, he had been around enough for Zimmerman to call 911 30 times on him, and his father's fiance lived there. So at what point did he not belong? And him having his hood up entitles some overzealous neighborhood watch captain to stalk him through the neighborhood? Aside from your overly dramatic setting above, what defines someone not belonging somewhere? Does a guy you don't know crossing through your back yard not belong jumping your fences and hedges? Absofuckinglutely. Does your neighbor's guest walking back to a car parked around the block have a right to walk to his car without being stalked by friend's gun-toting neighbor? Same answer. Listen, I completely get being vigilant in your neighborhood. It doesn't entitle you to act as the cop, judge, jury, and executioner when someone you don't know is strolling down the sidewalk. You wanna peek through your blinds at everyone that passes trying to decide if you need to go find out their purpose, have at it. But step off your property and follow them and tell me you're not the one instigating the issue now? Who's the aggressor? Who now has initiated the threat?

[Steve Butters]

All good points. Following Martin was an unwise for an untrained person to do. I would not follow a suspicious person myself. However, it was not illegal, so Zimmerman had every right to politely ask Martin what he was doing. And Martin had every right to tell him to pound sand.

Also, he was neighborhood watch - a position recognized by the police. Although I don't know if "patrolling" is an activity the police recommend. I certainly see this as being a crossroads for neighborhood watch type groups, setting new ground rules. Either barring the concept of patrolling, setting rules for it, or even creating a training program to allow such volunteers to patrol more safely...

Also, are you suggesting that Zimmerman had his gun out when he approached martin? That is not a claim I've heard supported by any of the evidence released so far.

- Did Martin attack Zimmerman, and when? (Martin did NOT have the right to attack Zimmerman, whether during the first conversation or the second), and

- WHEN did Zimmerman draw his gun? Zimmerman did NOT have the right to draw his gun at any time other than when he felt his life was in danger. People have this image of Zimmerman approaching Martin with the gun out already - but I've not heard evidence to that effect. I've heard claims that the gun came into play only after Martin commenced his physical attack and subsequently discovered the holstered gun / tried to take it. Even that is just a claim, and the investigators must verify or refute it as part of the deliberations.

These are the two key questions that need to be answered by the investigators

all of those points i mentioned were in response to a hypothetical between bad324 and someone else (forget username and too lazy to check).....the only thing in that whole post related to treyvon and this guy was when i explicitly said "this is the same way i feel about the topic of this thread....the dude should have never even made contact with this kid....if i was in the kids position just walking down the street and some dude came up harassing me for no reason, i would probably punch his ass too....mr tough guy thought he was the shit, and once he picked a fight he couldnt back up he resorted to using a gun....no matter how this case turns out legally, he is a major pussy and an even bigger douche for trying to pretend he is a cop"

i never mentioned the gun being pulled before he confronted him, hell i dont know when the gun came out - but if you read all my posts about this, like i already said, it sounds like the guy picked a fight, started to lose, and then pulled his gun...i never said he pulled a gun on the kid and confronted him....not sure why youre asking me if im suggesting he already had his gun out when i clearly said the opposite

[Exarch]

most likely up to something? he was there with his father visiting his fathers fiance....he had every right to be there.

hiding his face? he was wearing a fucking hood.....seriously? are you retarded? i wear my hood all the time....you know, to keep my ears warm, kind of what a HOODIE is for....whats next? we gonna shoot people for wearing gloves in the winter time? because obviously they were trying to hide their finger prints, no way they had cold fingers

[Scruit]

reading comprehension. try it out.

the post you quoted is my defense for the logic of "he was hiding his face, so obviously he was up to something" and the logic of "he shouldnt have been in that neighborhood because he didnt belong" when in all reality he did youre fucking retarded, just like the guy i quoted with that response

In a gated community an outsider will stand out. He may have been approached simply because he was an outsider, and simply saying; "I'm visiting family" would have been the end of it." Or saying; "Mind you own fucking business" would have been the end of it too. I have no idead what was going on in Zimmerman's head. If he had the gun out when he first approached Martin then he's an idiot and could be guilty of assault/menacing etc. If the gun stayed concealed and he just tried to talk to Martin then again, unwise but perfectly legal.

I've been in a similar situation where I say a non-local person after dark in a small community. I just watched them from my house and called the police when I saw them stealing a car. I asked the dispatcher if I should use my car to block the stolen car from leaving its driveway, or go out and try to stop the car being stolen - she said; "Stay out of it." I did. Police go there in time and arrested them - end of story.

[Scruit]

In Martin's case, he had been around enough for Zimmerman to call 911 30 times on him

Recheck that fact - I heard someone got into trouble for vastly over-stating the number of calls made to 911... I don't know what the real number is.

[Steve Butters]

In a gated community an outsider will stand out. He may have been approached simply because he was an outsider, and simply saying; "I'm visiting family" would have been the end of it." Or saying; "Mind you own fucking business" would have been the end of it too. I have no idead what was going on in Zimmerman's head. If he had the gun out when he first approached Martin then he's an idiot and could be guilty of assault/menacing etc. If the gun stayed concealed and he just tried to talk to Martin then again, unwise but perfectly legal.

I've been in a similar situation where I say a non-local person after dark in a small community. I just watched them from my house and called the police when I saw them stealing a car. I asked the dispatcher if I should use my car to block the stolen car from leaving its driveway, or go out and try to stop the car being stolen - she said; "Stay out of it." I did. Police go there in time and arrested them - end of story.

for being so smart, youre really failing at reading my post.

the post you just quoted, just like i ALREADY said...is in response to kz900 saying that the kid was OBVIOUSLY up to something based SOLELY on the fact that was HIDING his face by wearing a hood....my post has nothing to do with this case, other than to point out the fucked up and stupid logic of "wearing a hood = hiding your face because youre up to something"

[Scruit]

i never mentioned the gun being pulled before he confronted him

My mistake - I read "and if they pulled a gun and were hassling me" I thought you were talking about Zimmerman.

[Scruit]

for being so smart, youre really failing at reading my post.

the post you just quoted, just like i ALREADY said...is in response to kz900 saying that the kid was OBVIOUSLY up to something based SOLELY on the fact that was HIDING his face by wearing a hood....my post has nothing to do with this case, other than to point out the fucked up and stupid logic of "wearing a hood = hiding your face because youre up to something"

Trying to add clarity (and failing). Just saying that the hoodie may not have been the reason he was approached. Maybe it was. I dunno. If your post was not specifically about Zimmerman/Martin then fair enough.

[RVTPilot]

Witness and evidence obviously support Zimmerman, or he'd be in front of a grand jury. And that IS the scenario...like it or not.

An assumption, not fact. It is just as likely that the reason the grand jury was cancelled is that the prosecutor feels they have enough evidence for a conviction without it. Not a smart move by the prosecution unless you have homerun evidence, but then again the prosecutors have been known to bet on the legal equivalent of pocket rockets, only to end up with a pair of ones at the river. Right now, the only thing in excess is speculation, which is unfortunate for everyone involved.

[Steve Butters]

My mistake - I read "and if they pulled a gun and were hassling me" I thought you were talking about Zimmerman.

no worries - it was a long post lol

[LINK]

Case in point? Seriously? Umm nooo.... Not case in point.... Someone almost hit my bike yesterday on woodman cuz they wernt paying attention, I felt my life was in danger, so does that mean I could of pulled out my glock and poped a cap in her ass?? That whole 'i felt my life is in danger' line is a crock of shit. Hell my buddy got a gun pulled on him by soke.dumbass at bw3s lastyear in Huber. My buddy took that fuckers gun and beat the tar out that guy. He could of just as easily shot him with the gun he took, but he isnt se pussy ass bitch who has to kill someoje cuz his life was in danger. Also he was properly trained to deal with situations like that(12y MC) although the guy my buddy was with threw his eallet on the ground and ran like a bitch. I wasnt there for this incident, but im pretty sure its true cuz there were quite a few.witnesses.stating.what happend. I dunno what I would of done, I was takin a shit at the time. But MY CASE IN POINT is your.case in point is wrong. Most people dont kill other people cuz they feel their life is in danger, otherwise there would be dead bodies everywhere...

Read my entire previous post (#136), you missed something in my response...No worries, you were not the only one...

Concentrate on the last paragraph...

Heading to work now, without a gun...

[Steve Butters]

Trying to add clarity (and failing). Just saying that the hoodie may not have been the reason he was approached. Maybe it was. I dunno.

for the point of my post, it doesnt matter if it was or not...my response to kz900 doesnt relate to this case AT ALL...go re-read his post, he is saying that if a person is wearing a hood they are OBVIOUSLY up to something because they are hiding their face......it has nothing to do with this case, im not saying he was approached becasue of it, nothing.....my response is to kz900 and the statement he made....youre really over thinking it

[Scruit]

An assumption, not fact. It is just as likely that the reason the grand jury was cancelled is that the prosecutor feels they have enough evidence for a conviction without it. Not a smart move by the prosecution unless you have homerun evidence, but then again the prosecutors have been known to bet on the legal equivalent of pocket rockets, only to end up with a pair of ones at the river. Right now, the only thing in excess is speculation, which is unfortunate for everyone involved.

The GJ may have been cancelled because the previous prosecutor scheduled it and the new special prosecutor doesn't need it. Or doesn't want it.

The prosecutor may have decided that the the basis for charges related to precise points of law that a Judge would be more likely to be swayed by than a GJ. She may feel that the GJ would see a lot of emotional reasons to not return a true bill, and overlook the legal minutae.

Or it may just be her style - she may just never use GJs.

[Uncle Punk]

Being black has its advantages.... And disadvantages... Well not just black, any non whitr person really. Everyone is so damn worried about racism. I think everyone should.be treated equally regardless of race, but nowadays being white in America has alot ofbdisadvantages compared to being a 'minority' hell, I dont even tgink religious groups should be treated differntly, but they are.... Whatever happend to seperation of church and state? Thats the biggest lie of em all.

Really? You are having a hard time putting forth a comprehensive compelling argument on self defense and want to touch on church and state.

I dont see what pointless rants have to do with this? Im pretty sure thats what that section is for... and I have no clue wtf you mean, but im sure I got your panties in a bunch with my opinion... Sorry we all cant think alike, cuz if we did this world would be a better place.

You were being warned by someone that most likely shares you views to have a better grasp of your position or you might not enjoy your stay. Having no clue about what he meant is reason enough to question your judgment of jumping into discussions half cocked.

jbot knows he's gonna get his. He knows dudes with big black cocks love little Asians. Black Todd is gunna git yellow fever with jbot.

I got yellow fever, I got yellow fever

Not what I was getting at, but boring is better than dangerous. But what I was hinting at was if everyone thought alike(followed the laws/rules) like normal people we wouldnt have situations like this. Sure everyone does something theg arnt supposed to do, hell I speed everyday, sue me im guilty of that. But we cant just pick and choose which laws to follow, granted some are redicilous.... But laws are there for a reason, I dont know how crime started in the first place, but if we had capital punishment crime wouldnt be what it is today. You steal you lose a hand, you kill someone you get killed.

Society wants to be civilized, but see how well that works? America is too lenient on major crimes and too harsh on petty crimes, our society is so backwards. How the hell does someone get life for.being an accessorie to a crime(just for being a driver) yet the person commiting.the crime only gets 20years and the other person that actually was inside the place(also an accesorie) walks away Scott free? Cant remember which case this was, but it was pretty recent(in the past couple of years) and hell child molesters and rapists get off light too, hell they even get protected in jail/prison...

You might be listening to the wrong people and repeating an uninformed lie.

More cliff notes , exarch spells like he is in the forth grade. He also spent six years in the military. If you want anybody to take you seriously please take your self seriously and hit the books.

Sums up all my prior replies

I'm a white Asian targeting a poor innocent black tod. He was wearing his "don't stir the shit" hoodie with a pocket full of "rational discussion" fried chicken. I lost him after chasing him down with magleys rocket launcher loaded with "I have no basic understanding of how affirmative self defense is applied in law" incendiary rounds. Uncle pink flanked me, and was about to turn me into just another one of his white wimmenz, but Thank god exarch was there with his mighty fists that can knee cap everyone who commit crimes and even thinks about carrying protection... He saved me by turning back time and making sure I wasn't in a bad neighborhood.

Then I woke up from this nightmare to find myself in a world where Asians had ginger nipples, and seppuku'd to preserve my honor and sanity.

I am all out of rep and this is good enough to get all of it when it returns.

Case in point? Seriously? Umm nooo.... Not case in point.... Someone almost hit my bike yesterday on woodman cuz they wernt paying attention, I felt my life was in danger, so does that mean I could of pulled out my glock and poped a cap in her ass?? That whole 'i felt my life is in danger' line is a crock of shit. Hell my buddy got a gun pulled on him by soke.dumbass at bw3s lastyear in Huber. My buddy took that fuckers gun and beat the tar out that guy. He could of just as easily shot him with the gun he took, but he isnt se pussy ass bitch who has to kill someoje cuz his life was in danger. Also he was properly trained to deal with situations like that(12y MC) although the guy my buddy was with threw his eallet on the ground and ran like a bitch. I wasnt there for this incident, but im pretty sure its true cuz there were quite a few.witnesses.stating.what happend. I dunno what I would of done, I was takin a shit at the time. But MY CASE IN POINT is your.case in point is wrong. Most people dont kill other people cuz they feel their life is in danger, otherwise there would be dead bodies everywhere...

Cool story bro