CephasGT Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 But not shooting them unnecessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 But not shooting them unnecessarily.Obviously the officer felt it was necessary, or...do you think he had some sort of anti-dog vendetta?"Haha, I'm gonna take time out of this foot pursuit to shoot a random dog, that'll be fun." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 It was intentional, so many people think dogs should be treated like people... but a grown man or woman would have been smart enough not to attack a police officer in pursuit of suspects... if the dogs get rights like humans, they should be responsible like humans.Gotcha. Sometimes the sarcasm isn't evident even with the smiley.I didn't think the debate is as much about giving dogs human rights as it is about recognizing the emotional impact of losing a domesticated pet. Nobody can deny there is emotional distress when you lose a domesticated pet - the question is should people be compensated for that? Or should the aggressor be punished.I personally don't understand the concept that money will make the pain go away. I'd give my mother's life insurance back in a heartbeat if I could have her back. I think you should only be able to sue for demonstrable financial losses that you can product receipts and documentation for, but that's just me. I *DO* think that punitive damages work well as a deterrent, but that the money should go to related charities instead of the person suing. You kill someone's dog intentionally? You pay them for the dog, vet bills, costs incurred in finding/training another dog. Then you pay an appropriately "painful" amount of money to the local human society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephasGT Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Not talking about the officer. We don't know enough details to know whether he was justified or not. I'm talking about you saying you'll kill a dog for biting you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 But not shooting them unnecessarily.Where do you get "unnecessarily" from? Are you saying the officer should think "Well, I am in HIS yard so I should just left him chew on me for a while to make up for it"?I value human life above a dog's life and any person acting in good faith should be allowed to defend against a dog. Everyone gets clouded by the fact it is a cop who did it. What if it was a firefighter or paramedic that had to be in the yard to gain access to an emergency scene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Not talking about the officer. We don't know enough details to know whether he was justified or not. I'm talking about you saying you'll kill a dog for biting you.Then yes, that's me regarding my own safety and health above that of a dog's life... absolutely, every time and without fail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Just proves that our property is not our property, and I hope he can sue the city for that "wishful thinking". Dog was doing what it was supposed to be doing, the officer was trespassing.where I live the village has passed a law allowing them to come in any rented unit (house or apartments) and inspect it at any time they wish. tell me why this is allowed to happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephasGT Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Where do you get "unnecessarily" from? Are you saying the officer should think "Well, I am in HIS yard so I should just left him chew on me for a while to make up for it"?I'm saying that even if that were the case, there are other options.I value human life above a dog's life and any person acting in good faith should be allowed to defend against a dog. Everyone gets clouded by the fact it is a cop who did it. What if it was a firefighter or paramedic that had to be in the yard to gain access to an emergency scene?You can hardly blame people for being suspicious when this type of thing happens with alarming regularity:http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/20251373/chicago-cop-shoots-puppy-with-world-champion-lineage-exclusive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm saying that even if that were the case, there are other options.Like what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 where I live the village has passed a law allowing them to come in any rented unit (house or apartments) and inspect it at any time they wish. tell me why this is allowed to happen...Who are "they" and what are they "inspecting"? What village is this?Is this a *law* that grants agents of the village government access to rented units? Or does it grant rights for a landlord to access his rental unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephasGT Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Like what?Mace, tazer, a swift kick, his baton... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 where I live the village has passed a law allowing them to come in any rented unit (house or apartments) and inspect it at any time they wish. tell me why this is allowed to happen...The housing department?yes, they can inspect rental units... IIRC it's been that way for decades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Mace, tazer, a swift kick, his baton...Tazers are not designed for dogs, and might have killed it anyway, kicking doesn't always (will rarely) cause an attacking dog to stop...mace or baton, maybe... if he was carrying one or the other, but in a split second decision...a couple bullets do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Mace, tazer, a swift kick, his baton...Taser is a one-shot deal. Miss = attacked.Kick is also a one-shot deal. Miss = attacked. Also, first rule of self defense is keep your footing, so don't kick unless you know what you're doing.Mace (OC spray) could work but would just as likely result in the cop getting OC in his eyes. Was the officer carrying OC? Was his OC hand already occupied?Baton: Again, a one-shot deal - the dog is not scared of the baton and it won't keep him at bay. Miss = attacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephasGT Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm quite sure he had at least mace or a baton. More likely both. I think "might" should be preferred over "definitely" any day, when you're talking about the possibility of killing something that is probably very dear to someone. And kicking might not stop the dog entirely, but it'll give you separation, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephasGT Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Cop gets mace in his own eyes? Maybe he shouldn't be a cop. That's just dumb.And all of this discussion assumes that the whole "vicious dog" bit is true in the first place, which, given how most of these stories go, probably isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm quite sure he had at least mace or a baton. More likely both. I think "might" should be preferred over "definitely" any day, when you're talking about the possibility of killing something that is probably very dear to someone. And kicking might not stop the dog entirely, but it'll give you separation, at least.Again, not everybody shares my morality, but for me *any* animal's life < a human's safety.Be it a pet, or a workhorse, or a prized trophy...along those same lines, if i see a cat/dog/skunk/possum/turtle/duck in the road, I'll do my best to avoid it, but I'm not wrecking or ditching my vehicle over it, and I'm not going to lose a second of sleep that night if I squish it's little brain all over the asphalt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Cop gets mace in his own eyes? Maybe he shouldn't be a cop. That's just dumb.It's not. It's called real life versus the TV shows. I'm starting to understand why you seem to think the way you do - you seems to lack any kind of understanding of real life policing and use of force scenarios. Once the OC leaves the can it's not fussy about who gets it. Don't think of a cop accidentally shooting directly into his eyes - think of the cloud created by the spray. You spray air freshener you smell it, right? You spray OC, does the same thing. clouds/vapor. The general rule is that when the OC comes out while grappling, EVERYONE is at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm quite sure he had at least mace or a baton. More likely both. I think "might" should be preferred over "definitely" any day, when you're talking about the possibility of killing something that is probably very dear to someone. And kicking might not stop the dog entirely, but it'll give you separation, at least.He is not required to give the dog a sporting chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Again, not everybody shares my morality, but for me *any* animal's life < a human's safety.Be it a pet, or a workhorse, or a prized trophy...along those same lines, if i see a cat/dog/skunk/possum/turtle/duck in the road, I'll do my best to avoid it, but I'm not wrecking or ditching my vehicle over it, and I'm not going to lose a second of sleep that night if I squish it's little brain all over the asphalt.I share your opinion that human life is worth more than animal life. I won't swerve for any animal. I'll brake, but won't risking losing control and causing a larger accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephasGT Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 It's not. It's called real life versus the TV shows. I'm starting to understand why you seem to think the way you do - you seems to lack any kind of understanding of real life policing and use of force scenarios. Once the OC leaves the can it's not fussy about who gets it. Don't think of a cop accidentally shooting directly into his eyes - think of the cloud created by the spray. You spray air freshener you smell it, right? You spray OC, does the same thing. clouds/vapor. The general rule is that when the OC comes out while grappling, EVERYONE is at risk.Right, who doesn't have knowledge of what? A cloud like air freshener? I don't know what you're thinking of, but OC comes out in a stream, like hornet killer or brake cleaner. Again, if you manage to get that in your eyes, particularly when spraying downwards at an animal, you're doing it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Right, who doesn't have knowledge of what? A cloud like air freshener? I don't know what you're thinking of, but OC comes out in a stream, like hornet killer or brake cleaner. Again, if you manage to get that in your eyes, particularly when spraying downwards at an animal, you're doing it wrong.You can get stream or fogger. Even the stream splashes and lets off vapors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephasGT Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 If you're carrying a fogger on your belt for use as personal defense, again, you're doing it wrong.Here's another thing to consider. There's no way the cop was being attacked. A gun is, by nature of its mechanism, a standoff weapon. So it's not as if the dog was gnawing on his leg at the time the cop decided, of all the choices available to him, to use his gun. So he was being what, chased? Barked at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Here's another thing to consider. There's no way the cop was being attacked. A gun is, by nature of its mechanism, a standoff weapon. So it's not as if the dog was gnawing on his leg at the time the cop decided, of all the choices available to him, to use his gun. So he was being what, chased? Barked at?WAIT WAIT WAIT... WUT?!?!Are you claiming that you can't shoot a dog that is latched onto your leg?Seriously? Not being there at the time, I'm doubtful that you have more facts than the rest of us regarding this case. It is quite possible that while in foot pursuit, the dog bit the officer, and was subsequently shot... just because guns CAN be used at a distance (and are designed to) does not mean that they need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 If you're carrying a fogger on your belt for use as personal defense, again, you're doing it wrong.Here's another thing to consider. There's no way the cop was being attacked. A gun is, by nature of its mechanism, a standoff weapon. So it's not as if the dog was gnawing on his leg at the time the cop decided, of all the choices available to him, to use his gun. So he was being what, chased? Barked at?Why would you think a pistol cannot be operated by someone with an arm or leg tied up? They train for that. And offhand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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