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My track bike conundrum.


Tonik

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3 hours ago, PhilD'oh! said:

I don't know anything about the track, but from those I've talked to, you have to be very good to out brake a modern abs system.  That said, MotoGP bikes don't have it.   You Rossi, Marquez, Dovi caliber?

MotoGp doesn't have abs because it against the rules, at least it was last I looked into it.

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Right.  I guess that still leaves the question of whether it's an advantage or not, on the track.   My (uneducated) guess is that the super high level, professional riders (MotoGP guys) can brake more competitively without it.  The rest of us would benefit from it, especially on the street.  

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Actually, the more I think about it..the real question is whether "Joe average" or even "Joe slightly-above average (Tonik)" can out brake a modern abs system on the track or on the street.  I'd bet a paycheck the answer is "no" at least 75% of the time.   

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38 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

Abs wouldn't help that, by the time it would even start to tuck you would be oh the ground when you are riding at the limit. 

 

30 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

And actually tucking the front is from loss of grip not locking the wheel. You exceed the limit of the tire not that you're on the brakes so hard they lock. The abs would never ever kick on. 

Don't be so sure.  I seriously doubt anyone on this board could out brake the excellent C-ABS on my 2010 CBR600RR and that was a couple generations behind this 

 

http://www.motorcycle.com/safety/mo-tested-cornering-abs.html

"...my mind half melted at the amount of braking force that could be applied to a leaned-over front tire before it lost grip and tucked,” 

 

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FB_IMG_1505394450736.jpg

If I was applying the same amount of brake as I am in the above picture

FB_IMG_1505394472575.jpg

At this point of the corner I would be on my ass ABS or not. Stuff happens alot faster the more leaned over the bike is. You can use more brake in the corner than you think but the key is smooth application. 

Edited by Jester_
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7 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

I'm sure you know all so I'll just go with it. The track isn't the street.

Right, the track is a magical land of mystery where the rules of physics are completely different.

Lean angle ABS on a street bike is pretty amazing.  If you let a race team develop that or had a MotoGP team link it to GPS with a braking profile specific to each braking point on each turn for specific conditions...I'm sorry but no human could match that.  I think the downside would be that the racing would not be as exciting to watch. 

Edited by Tpoppa
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Hey now that new R1 ABS is a different thing altogether. 

 

A 2010 cbr doesnt have a gyro in it or understand when a wheel is off the ground, know how much lean angle you have. 

 

Tonik buy a 2015 R1. I heard a couple others on OR might get one. :popcorn:

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I don't claim to know fuck all about racing, but I do know technology.

This is pretty much the same argument every time new technology comes along.  There's no way launch control, or wheelie control, or traction control, or even a quick shifter can do better than a skilled, experienced racer.  Until they do.  Ask Josh Hayes.    

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So the salvage yard just called to pick up my bike. So it is officially totaled. Have not heard from the insurance company yet, I imagine they are slammed with hurricane stuff and I am fine waiting. Those peeps need service before I do. Of course the bike isn't going anywhere until I do.

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29 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

So is the ABS linked to the rear tire as well? What happens if you go to back it in and the abs kicks in? I still stand by abs doing nothing at full lean to prevent a tuck, they aren't the same crash. The tire will be gone before the abs would kick in.

The ABS is linked. I don't back it in and for that matter I haven't been on track with anyone actually backing it in. Maybe Knapp or some others but I didn't witness it firsthand. Those guys are at a different level than the average club racer though.

I think the tuck situation depends on what is causing the tire to lose traction. if it's purely too much cornering force then no it won't help. If it's because you apply too much brake while cornering then I think it would, you can lock the front at full lean while it's almost impossible while upright.

I fully believe the comment above about new technology, humans just cannot do things better or faster than a computer.

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15 minutes ago, Jester_ said:

I agree but it has to be setup right. Like the new R1 stuff cant begin to compare to older first gen abs systems. 

I had a 2008 SV650 with ABS that was absolutely dangerous.  The wheel wouldn't lock, but it basically disengaged the brake.   It took forever to stop, it was scary.

The linked C-ABS on had on my CBR and currently have on my VFR12 is light years ahead of that shitty Suzuki system.  I can try to lock up both tires on dry pavement, or wet, or gravel, and it just stops without even a wiggle.

The new R1, BWM, Aprilia, etc systems are even better.

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