Think you are fast at the track???

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by doggunracing:

Actually, 911s are rear-engine (behind rear axle). They do require a ton of trailbraking to get the front to grip. That's why the car seems so loose.

yes, and thats why they are more notorious for snap oversteer, the suckiest of the suck. Innexperienced drivers get understeer because no one taught them how to use the brakes to turn, experienced ones get oversteer because of the weight distribution.

[recklessOP]

the problem with older 911s (pre 993) is the rear suspension. it's a semi trailing arm setup iirc. more spring rate to limit travel will help, but you lose grip over rough pavement.

 

unless you're insane, i don't think you don't want to trail brake an older 911. the newer cars (993 and up) have a much improved multi link setup out back, with (i'm assuming) much better toe control.

 

lots of cars will snap oversteer. fox chassis mustangs do it too when the rear suspension binds up...

 

[ 01. March 2005, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: recklessOP ]

[recklessOP]

btw, the 911 really isn't the 'superior' car a lot of people make it out to be...

 

yes, they have a solid racing record, but a good part of that comes down to class rules, experience, and sheer numbers...

 

first of all, the engine location doesn't make a whole lot of sense. a 'proper' performance car has the engine mid (not rear) mounted for good weight distribution and a low polar moment of inertia. in the 911's case, tradition wins out. the car has been rear engined for so long we'll never see it changed, despite the fact that a mid engine layout is 'superior'...

 

second, the suspension really isn't anything to brag about. front struts with either a semi trailing arm or multi link IRS. the 'ideal' performance car would have double wishbones front and rear. don't believe me? look at any purpose built racing car. struts and trailing arms are used because they package well, not because they perform better...

 

that said, the cars do have their strengths. the boxer engines give a lower cg...

 

i do like the cars. they've got a lot of 'character' and a lot of potential. they just aren't the best piece of engineering...

 

[ 28. February 2005, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: recklessOP ]

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by recklessOP:

they just aren't the best piece of engineering...

But I was comparingthem to F-bodies, all things relative. tongue.gif

[mrblunt]

Wow that dude was balls out, i'm impressed. That tracks a pain in the ass on gt4, its amazing that seeing it in that video I had memorized so many of those turns by what gear you should be in smile.gif

[Guest Ponyfreak]

I still cannot find the helicopter video of his second lap. Anyone find this yet??

[Mr.COS]

They are notorious for the swinging hammer effect because of the rear-engine layout.

 

Once you get the weight swinging, it's hard to catch. That guy definately has skills. I wouldn't say F1 level, but definately sportcar racing level.

 

I WILL drive that track before I die.

[Rally Red Evo]

I guess if he crashed it he didn't want to see the damage

[Nitrousbird]

Originally posted by Tenzig:

But I was comparingthem to F-bodies, all things relative. tongue.gif

I sure hope a 911 year for year would outhandle an F-body. There is a HUGE price difference between the two.

 

Or we can talk about your tank, all things relative.

[Farkas]

Originally posted by Nitrousbird:

I sure hope a 911 year for year would outhandle an F-body. There is a HUGE price difference between the two.

 

Or we can talk about your tank, all things relative.

lol

[Guest Ponyfreak]

I knew some F body would bring up the price card....

[Berto]

ill just shut up, eric can fight his own fights.

[Mowgli1647545497]

The Expert analysis in this thread is entertaining me.

 

Please continue.

 

graemlins/popcorn.gif

[Mowgli1647545497]

BTW - is it me or were there alot of SCOOTERS on that track? wtf?

 

Also - did you see me standing by the side? No?

 

Here's a hint where to look for me: I was standing in the grass.

[Mr.COS]

Anyone can pay 5 marks, I guess it's Euros now, and drive the track one revolution.

 

You can even buy a season pass.

 

That's why someday I'll be driving the hell out of it.

 

Originally posted by Mowgli:

BTW - is it me or were there alot of SCOOTERS on that track? wtf?

 

Also - did you see me standing by the side? No?

 

Here's a hint where to look for me: I was standing in the grass.

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by Nitrousbird:

Or we can talk about your tank, all things relative.

You sure you want to talk about my tanks, man? graemlins/nonono.gif

My tanks have a far better road racing history then you "reace bred american sprotscar". But yes, lest talk tanks:

96 Tbird tank, 190 rwhp; 1:54 / mid ohio club course, street tires

91 cougar tank, 1:45 / mid ohio club course w/crappy 3 speed auto and open/tire scorching diff

 

your turn graemlins/thumb.gif

[Guest 00Smurf]

Originally posted by Tenzig:

You sure you want to talk about my tanks, man? graemlins/nonono.gif

My tanks have a far better road racing history then you "reace bred american sprotscar". But yes, lest talk tanks:

96 Tbird tank, 190 rwhp; 1:54 / mid ohio club course, street tires

91 cougar tank, 1:45 / mid ohio club course w/crappy 3 speed auto and open/tire scorching diff

 

your turn graemlins/thumb.gif

only 190rwhp? is this the same one you raced my mr2 in a couple years ago?

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by 00Smurf:

only 190rwhp? is this the same one you raced my mr2 in a couple years ago?

Yessir

Did I also mention the bird is rolling on the factory installed shocks (150k mi), springs, and bushings, and the stock brake hardware?

[Guest 00Smurf]

Originally posted by Tenzig:

Yessir

Did I also mention the bird is rolling on the factory installed shocks (150k mi), springs, and bushings, and the stock brake hardware?

good power to weight ratio then?

we should race now, i might have a better chance. see you on the track this year?

[Mensan]

Joe and Eric, your arguments are flawed.

 

Joe, no matter how much you like the F-Body, it was not designed to be a road raced car. If you make enough modifications, it will do fairly well, but it still stands that theu fundamental design limits the cars abilities. Perhaps if GM had intended to make it a race car it would do better, and you know more than I do about its limitations, but that was not the intention of GM. This is not a "my car is better" argument, hell my car is an even worse platform. Eric was trying to point out (rather uncouthly) that the car is race bred, and the driver is most likely experiencing things that the majority of people on CR have only seen in videos like this one. I think you offended him and his road course racing experience (since he has raced his "tank" in a similar fashion), and he feels you have no right to voice an opinion with no road course experience. I'm sure everything was taken out of context.

 

Eric, rather than argue about your personal car as opposed to the F-Body, why don't you argue about the better driver; i.e., challenge someone to run a course in the same car, which will give you the results you need. If Joe can run a faster time in your car, then you would have more respect for him, I am sure. That is the only challenge with results that will matter. The same goes for a pass down the strip. If you could drive Joes car faster, I am sure he would give you MAD PROPZ as well.

 

Get along boys, that's what we're about.

[Maro]

Helicopter Video ? Anyone have it yet?

[recklessOP]

graemlins/popcorn.gif

 

[ 02. March 2005, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: recklessOP ]

[Orion]

welp, if this is an argument about racing on a track, im pretty sure at least one of the combatants doesnt have a leg to stand on.

[Guest Cougar_55555]

Def 100% Legit...

 

For you guys who think otherwise, you dont have a clue of what you are talking about and you need to stop watching so much damn NASCAR.

 

 

8 mins is dam fast! The best I can do in PGR2 is like 12-13 mins in a dam Enzo.

[Chief8one]

a couple of observations

 

1. hella driver

 

2. 5th gear looks to be a mile away or is that just me

 

3. at 4:05 in the video he gets a crotch itch? LMAO i wouldn't dare grab myself at those speeds.