Do you believe...

[zeitgeist57]

Because better video quality would show that it's not aliens. :gabe:

[99StockGT]

Be careful, Austin.

 

If you cannot get enough evidence on your own to present a strong hypothesis, you'll come across as a nutjob.

 

Wait wait, why can't I be a nutjob? I thought this was CR where all opinions/thoughts/ramblings were equal?

[99StockGT]

Taking a break from all the mud slinging in the Political thread reading...

 

How 'bout 'dem Aliens huh?

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a13788361/what-the-hell-was-that-mystery-aircraft-flying-over-oregon/

 

Read this story back in the fall before a lot of the current release came out, really interesting giving the timing and location of said "Craft"

[Geeto67]

sigh.

 

Let's clear some things up - not every aircraft is required to have a transponder. In the US only commercial turbine-powered transport aircraft with more than 30 passenger seats (or MTOM above 33,000 lb or 15,000 kg) are required to have them. The overwhelming majority of civil aircraft in the US have them because it's cheap and there are certain airspace classes you can't fly into without them. Military aircraft have transponders (either TCAS or MILACAS-XR) that can be turned off. ATC has very little authority over the military and it is not uncommon to see military operators in Class A airspace (18,000-60,000) not responding to civil transponder interrogations.

 

Not every Aircraft is required to have a radio either. Which means not every aircraft is required to have radio contact. If you are a civil aircraft operating in Class A you are required to have contact with ATC (excluding sailplane and small plane operations around mountains), but again the military is not subject to ATC so they contact at their discretion.

 

Now the other contextual details I will add here are:

 

- Given the current political climate, it is not uncommon to see Russian military aircraft on the edge of or inside US airspace. Last year they flew a bomber at 3700 feet down the center of Washington DC.

 

- the US and Russia have a long standing history of using spy planes for surveillance. And both countries have aircraft with stealth technology.

 

 

Now, do you still think it was aliens? Or is it more likely something military?

 

I like this write up better than PM's:

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/16079/airliners-and-f-15s-involved-in-bizzare-encounter-with-mystery-aircraft-over-oregon

[99StockGT]

I read that same article Kerry, their author Tyler Rogoway is one of my favorite to read on all things military/defense. The reason I linked the one I did was to make it more of a "real established news outlet". Truth be told, almost the only reason I ever bother checking Thedrive is for The War Zone articles.

 

The Russian flight over DC was pre-planned and authorized, also highly visible as it was taking place during the day and at low altitude. That's just more of our standard saber rattling political process than anything else.

 

What happened on the West Coast is something altogether different. Russians have teased our air space many times before but never, at least to my knowledge, tried to overfly a large chunk of the West Coast land mass during a busy transportation day.. in the middle of the day. Also you have this craft flying in what is known commercial aviation space, something a typical spy plane wouldn't be doing. If you are thinking "stealth russian craft", how did it get so far into our airspace without us spotting it and also spotting the likely refueling craft it would need to make this sortie?

 

You have multiple in area aircraft unable to report a positive visual on the craft. Perhaps most telling is the military response to this even scrambling F-15s, confirmed by sources at NORAD and from the Airbase in Oregon where they were stationed. Those experienced military aviators with some of the best warfighting equipment we posses as a country were unable to find the craft. Also we have 0 reports of craft landing at local air fields that would explain the flight.

 

Not saying it's Aliens from Venus, just saying it's an interesting exercise in thought to imagine possible beings and technology we don't currently understand being here on this little blue marble we call home.

[Geeto67]

It could be anything, but if I were asked to speculate I would put it at:

 

- Domestic Military stealth aircraft being ferried from one location to another and did not have the distance to clear commercial aviation traffic by more than a few thousand feet.

 

- foreign military stealth aircraft that for some reason was below the normal altitude where stealth aircraft operate

 

The west coast is home to many aerospace defense contractors like Boeing and Lockheed-Martin, and it is unusual but not out of the realm of possibility to spot unusual aircraft in the air. It would also make it a prime area for espionage by a foreign power for the same reason.

 

There is one more gruesome scenario which I hesitate to mention because it's unlikely but not impossible. This was a civilian aircraft that suffered a malfunction. It's not unheard of pressurized private aircraft to become ghost ships when the pressurization fails and the plane keeps flying despite everyone onboard being dead. An instrument electrical failure in conjunction with a loss of cabin pressure would knock out all radio contact, TCAS, and occupants. Even without autopilot airplanes are pretty stable in the air and the engines run on a separate electrical system.

 

Primary radar by itself isn't exactly the most reliable. It relies on line of sight echo location to bounce a signal off the airplane. For the most part it works well when used in conjunction with a secondary system like a TCAS transponder - the primary "pings" the aircraft and the secondary interrogates the xponder for details like altitude and airspeed. Even if you don't have a primary ping, if there is a secondary xponder signal the aircraft is usually spotted. So how could it miss a primary radar signal? Well ATC's system is filtered to remove "noise" data from anything that is not a large slow moving aircraft. something operating at 600mph and small like a private jet, in an already crowded sky without a transponder signal could possibly filter out as "noise". I think the current radar range for any one signal is under 300 nautical miles. Hang around enough airports and old time airline pilots will tell you about "ghost" airliners - planes that have been painted over so many times that they failed to register on primary - only secondary radar.

 

So picture this: Private jet departs southern California heading to Northern California or Southern Oregon. At cruising altitude and speed the aircraft experiences a rapid depressurization and electrical failure that kills all on-board and knocks out secondary systems. aircraft continues to fly in smooth 37,000 ft air north for as long it has fuel. F-15's scramble from NORAD but are directed south for intercept missing the aircraft entirely. By the time they turn north, the aircraft is in Canada and either crashes into the sea or the Canadian wilderness. If they were smugglers they would not have filed a flight plan so there isn't an alert for a missing plane.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Geeto67

[cdk 4219]

The mainstream media has zero credibility these days, so don't expect certain stories to see much of a push.

 

Absolutely 100% correct. They all push their agenda while conveniently omitting information that could sway that agenda.

[99StockGT]

Absolutely 100% correct. They all push their agenda while conveniently omitting information that could sway that agenda.

 

One of the great benefits of the modern internet age is people can get their message out even if they aren't a part of the "Main Stream". Unfortunately that's a double edged sword as there's little to no vetting on many of these stories coming out so we have to do the fact checking ourselves or at least see if it passes a smell test.

 

One of the sites Kerry brought up earlier is Thedrive, it's sub channel TheWarZone has some of the best military and defense writers around, not to mention the comments sections have some very VERY interesting submitters.

[99StockGT]

https://gizmodo.com/if-you-find-aliens-who-do-you-call-1822248026

[99StockGT]

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18473/faa-recordings-deepen-mystery-surrounding-ufo-over-oregon-that-sent-f-15s-scrambling

 

The story continues! Someone cue the music!

[Ackbar00]

Gesh, its like this scene:

[99StockGT]

Really really love reports like this that go after a story even after months have gone by. As the majority of media have moved on to the newest shiny object Tyler is still dogging away on it, and my god these recordings and the information they got access to! Not sure how many of you care to watch/listen/read but it's extremely interesting. Really really begs the question what exactly WAS this thing.

[99StockGT]

Well...someone cue to music...

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19095/listen-in-as-a-learjet-and-an-airbus-encounter-a-mystery-craft-high-over-arizona

[TTQ B4U]

The only thing of real value in this is the pic of the jet. Bad-ass-mofo right there.

 

http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/foundry/image/?q=70&w=1440&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F02%2Fcc952.jpg%3Fquality%3D85

[caseyctsv]

I don’t know if aliens exist, but I was with 8 other guys on a fishing trip in Canada when we all saw this:

 

 

I know it is a terrible pic but it was oblong and looked like a missile - no wings, no sound, no vapor trail. We were up where there are very few people. We were all in various boats around the lake and all saw it.

 

We are convinced, after research, it is the “Solar Warden”. Interesting reading if you have never heard of it. Who knows, but it was fun to talk abou...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[caseyctsv]

It was big too - like jumbo jet big and about at the same distance up in the sky.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Bigbird]

That's pretty cool, man! Regardless of what it was. My grandpa used to take me out "UFO hunting" when I was a kid. He was in the Army and told me one time about something he saw crash that he had no explanation for. He used to have all kinds of UFO books and stuff. Really got me into it when I was a kid, but my suspension of disbelief has waned as I've gotten older. I still "want" to believe, though.

[99StockGT]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/12/politics/unidentified-aircraft-navy/index.html

 

And... another one.. doesn't it feel like I'm reviving this thread every couple days at this point?

[99StockGT]

It was big too - like jumbo jet big and about at the same distance up in the sky.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

I've seen a couple unexplained objects in the sky from either backpacking/hiking trips when I was younger to deep sea fishing trips. There's certainly plenty of morsels out there for a small meal and a beer.

[Geeto67]

doesn't it feel like I'm reviving this thread every couple days at this point?

 

just because it can't be identified, doesn't mean it is extraterrestrial in origin.

[99StockGT]

just because it can't be identified, doesn't mean it is extraterrestrial in origin.

 

No it does not. It could be lizard people who have been here on this planet for thousands of years since before man stood upright.

[coltboostin]

I have learned in life if I cant control it, Im not going to spend any effort to worry about it. Its a very literal waste of time.

 

Knowing how large the universe is I think you would be naive to think we are the only intelligent life out there. Now since I cant talk to, know, or stop any other life from coming here- I givith no fucks about it.

[99StockGT]

Oh I'm certainly not actively worried and stressed out about an alien invasion, just find it interesting how much of this stuff is being publicly reported lately. Every culture around the world has tales and histories of mysterious things in the skies, but in the modern world it's been particularly taboo to talk about.

 

None of this proves anything one way or another, but it's a positive thing to have conversations out in the open.

[Geeto67]

Every culture around the world has tales and histories of mysterious things in the skies, but in the modern world it's been particularly taboo to talk about.

None of this proves anything one way or another, but it's a positive thing to have conversations out in the open.

 

Has it? because I'm pretty sure I lived through the 1990's and people were "Alien crazy" back then. And we just got back the X-files and 20+ years of movies about aliens still happened.

 

The problem with anything supernatural , and I will include religion in this as well, is that is has a tendency to foster enthusiasm without a good check in place. You have people who want to be true so bad they are willing to overlook that it isn't - and it's all they can talk about. To most people, even those who are open to it, this can be off putting and it makes them sensitive. Add to this the fact that TV loves to exploit this zealotry, and what you end up with is an environment of polite conversation where people are not willing to hear about ancient alien mummies any more than they are willing to "hear the good news".

 

BTW, we know extraterrestrials exist for a fact because we made some. NASA studied bacteria's reaction to growing in the vacuum of space and found that they thrived and multiplied. Every bacteria created in space is technically an extraterrestrial because it was not born of earth. now is there life that is not born of earth and did not originate from an earth species? that's were it gets fascinating.

[zeitgeist57]

BTW, we know extraterrestrials exist for a fact because we made some. NASA studied bacteria's reaction to growing in the vacuum of space and found that they thrived and multiplied. Every bacteria created in space is technically an extraterrestrial because it was not born of earth. now is there life that is not born of earth and did not originate from an earth species? that's were it gets fascinating.

 

This thread assumes the premise - validated with discoveries of bacteria, water, or prehistoric evidence of the presence of either - that life does indeed exist beyond our own planet. What your suggesting is the debate about sources of INTELLIGENT life, advanced in technology.

 

Also, anyone reading this thread thus far......if you haven't watched the recent movie "Life", you need to do it.

 

One of the theories I like the most is alien life existing on Earth...but underwater: if an advanced life form survived light years of travel to make it to Earth - think of the physics around that - then why wouldn't you just park your ship in about 2,000ft of ocean depth? Surely if it survived amazing distances/speeds in space it should have the structural integrity to survive a little sea water. Pop out at night, fly around, grab a redneck or two for some probing, drop back underwater during the day.

 

I love space, and our scientific abilities made greater through exploring the cosmos. But the fact that 70% of our planet's surface is covered by water, with depths we cannot fathom (pun intended) and have yet to discover...seems like a fine hiding place. Plus, a great source of oxygen and hydrogen if your life-support or technology requires it.