The Power of a Test Ride. (HD Sales Manual)

[RSVDon]

Posted by the Ape forum admin. I could do nothing but

I have no other opinion on it than that for now.

Well, I saw this on a facebook page the other night and have debated about posting it? It is friggin hugely awesome but, I am actually not an HD "hater". They build bikes, I like bikes, even if they do not make anything "for me" they still have earned respect in my book, and the bikes of theirs I work on are actually pretty good quality in recent years.

There has been a long running joke inside and outside the motorcycle industry that HD does not sell bikes, the "sell a lifestyle and lifestyle accessories". From the outside looking in most of the recent HD converts seem to fall into this group. They as a company though are no doubt absolute tops in marketing of their product to the right buyers, creating extreme brand loyalty in rider's who have a year or less saddle time. Eagle Rider and the HD sponsored programs like the MSF instruction at the dealerships is pure genius. My buddy down in Houston just took one of the courses and it started out with an hour long forced march through the dealership with "lessons" on lifestyle products, helmet laws, new HD motorcycles and such, then they went to the classroom for the actual class. In the next couple of days this theme of product immersion would be repeated several times and the offer for "test rides" of new bikes as soon as the course was complete...

Then I see this, nope, not my original pics but I am absolutely amazed at the way this is taught to dealership level sales people. The focus is not at all about the machine or the ride, but all about being seen and respected. This is so not the reason I am got into bikes, or stayed into bikes but, I am a weirdo in more ways than 1.

All this said, I am not just blasting HD, I do actually ride their bikes post tuning and as far as cruisers go, well, HD and Yamaha have it nailed. I would personally probably be more Yamaha "Warrior" or "Raider" interested if I were a cruiser buyer but, only because I like the power and the way those chassis feel a little more, really the brakes make the difference. Most of the newer HD stuff handles amazingly well for close to half a ton of metal rolling down the road, and unlike Yamaha and the other manufacturers, HD is the innovator and inventor more or less of this class of bikes. Just like when you think about race bikes, Ducati and Aprilia spring to mind or touring bikes, a Honda Goldwing springs to mind, when I think low and slow, HD comes to mind....and I mean this in a good way.

[Artmageddon]

I don't disagree with that one bit, and I just bought a Harley. When I took the MSF a few years ago, I did it at at HD dealer because the State class was full for months and I wanted to take it before I rode a lot, I had already bought my Honda. When we took the tour of the dealership, I thought it was a fucking joke at first. Couldn't believed that I had just paid 12 times as much for the course as I could through the state, and and had to deal with a fucking sales pitch.

I don't think any other brand comes close to the brand loyalty that Harley creates. It's almost beyond reason. I have had my bike bike a month and am already getting bombarded with offers to continue my HD lifestyle into the future. Fuck that. I bought it because I actually like the bike, not because I want to wear a leather vest with a HOG patch on it.

Just like many other things, Harley creates an identity for people that may not be able to choose their own. Do I get sucked in? Hell yeah, a small amount. I don't deny it, and I know my identity very well. I bought a hat, I'm sure I'll pick up a few tees. Did that with my Honda as well. I've been a jeans, black tee and boots guys long before I started riding, so that doesn't change. This is no different that then import tuner crowd, the jock crowd, the nerd crowd. We all fall into cliques, All brands , especially cars and bikes, create one. Harley just knows how to make tons of money off of theirs. If anyone ever sees me wearing an Orange HD jacket with a Bar and Shield tee underneath with a Willie G headband on, slap me though. I don't want to be that guy.

[magley64]

its good marketing... simple as that. Harley knows the people wanting to purchase a bike from them are looking for an image more than anything else.

might I add HILARIOUS, and NOT at all why I ride my XX...

But a good portion of the reason I ride the Dune Buggy. I get comments from everyone, people point and wave, and ask for rides almost every time I take it somewhere. It's loud as hell (stereo AND exhaust) and it just SCREAMS "look at me look at me look at me".

Edited April 13, 2010 by magley64

[Hoblick]

aaaaahahahahahah

good marketing i agree..

but they market to a bunch of wannabes is how i see it.

i have ridden a few harleys, a few big dog choppers, some victories, yamahas, ive ridden alot of bikes, but i never got emersed into a lifestyle from a ride on one bike or the next.

thats why i ride a touring bike lol.. saddlebags, top touring trunk.. everyone i know thinks the luggage looks gay... but it serves a purpose. its useful.. and so should the bike you ride.. for whatever reason it may be, except to fit in to a lifestyle lol

[alienpi]

I've never rode a cruiser, so I'm kind of looking forward to Demo Days this year. After test riding the 1125R at Demo Days, last year, I was sold.

[Uncle Punk]

Genius. This is how you maximize your profit with a multitude of products and create brand loyalty. Like them or not they are a force that is amazing and defies most logic.

I would hardly call them innovative in the cruiser market though. How else can a cruiser look? A pick-up is a pick-up no matter the manufacture, it is easily distinguished as such, yet we don't call them copycats. A person who doesn't know sport bikes can't tell one manufacturer from the next because for the bike to fit the category they need to look and serve the purpose which tends to make them resemble each other in that category.

Harley has been around the longest but the cruiser market exists because that is the type of riding the majority of people like to ride. When other manufactures choose to sell in that market it doesn’t make them copycats because their bike resembles the first in that market. When Toyota started selling pick-ups they weren’t copying the existing manufactures, they were creating a product to compete in the largest vehicle buying sector.

[garysol1]

Fuck that. I bought it because I actually like the bike

Besides the lifestyle that goes along with it what did you like about the HD over the big metric cruisers? I have ridden both and I have yet to find one thing the Harley does better than the others besides making my wallet lighter.

I am not a hater either, just a guy who does not get it.

[wacky_woodchuck]

It's funny...but it's also a VERY good sales tool for the majority of potential H-D buyers. In context, the majority of us (on this forum) are not the core group that H-D is looking to buy a Harley. It's a good guideline and I bet works very well for the majority of sales at H-D. They roped my mother in this way (but she always wanted an H-D).

Not many people get H-D. But they are a really nice motorcycle, but most people need a different mindset to enjoy one. Sure, there are better cruisers out there for less money. I would never pay what they are asking for new one. But for long touring an Ultra Classic is really hard to beat. It turns the ride into a whole different experience. I know I tend to look at everything more, notice the scenery etc... Not worried about what corner I can rail next.

[Artmageddon]

Besides the lifestyle that goes along with it what did you like about the HD over the big metric cruisers? I have ridden both and I have yet to find one thing the Harley does better than the others besides making my wallet lighter.

I am not a hater either, just a guy who does not get it.

I've been looking for a new bike since last October, and have looked at or test rode a Triumph Thunderbird, a Honda VTX, The Honda Stateline/Interstate,

Several Ducati's(Monster, Streetfighter, Hypermotard), and several different Harley's.

I was close to buying the Thunderbird, just didn't real quite as comfortable as it should have. I'm not a brand snob at all, Hell my best friend rides a gixxer, and everyone I hang with on the board has a metric bike, except Vrod Dave who is no longer here.

I went with Harley Softail because:

1. I have always liked them. Growing up, my dad always had Jap cruisers, and talked about wanting a softail one day. The area I grew up in was a cruiser area, not sportbike(surprising, some of the best MC roads in Ohio are in Eastern part). Just the bike I've always pictured myself on, just the like the car I always wanted a 1969 Mustang.

2. I'm kinda throwback person when it comes to vehicles. I like the looks 60's & 70's syling, but with the modern twists. Love the new Mustangs and Challengers. The Fat Boy Lo has this feel.

3. I love black. I love flat back. I hate chrome. I'm not a flashy person, If I want attention, I want it to be about me not the bike I"m on. I like the little things on it, like the leather seat and tank bib, the turn signals shut off automatically, it has a gas gauge(don't laugh, most metric cruisers don't).

Say what you will, there is nothing cheap on this bike.

4. Harley's retain their value. I like the fact if I ever sell this, I won't be losing half the purchase price. I lve the Honda cruisers, but couldn't get over buying a 13k bike that would only be worth 8k in a year.

5. As soon as I sat on, I knew it fit me. Just felt the best out of all the bikes. It is what I wanted, simple as that, don't really give a fuck what anyone else thinks. Just like you guys should feel about your bike.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a total HD fanboy either. There are things

that I wish were a different, but that's what aftermarket parts are for.

I don't like the whole lifestyle immersion thing. To a point it's okay, but it can be taken too.

But all motorcycle riders are in it to a degree anyway.

This is the same culture that was started by our grandfathers after WWII.

Honda, Kawi, Icon, Joe Rocket, etc are all part of this.

Moderation is the key to most things anyway.

No other vehicle elicits the amount of love and hatred that a Harley does.

Not sure why that is.

I'm ranting again, I'll shut up now.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Artmageddon

[Meanie]

I would hardly call them innovative in the cruiser market though. How else can a cruiser look?

I don't believe they were referring to the way the bike looks. I believe they are referring to the technology advancements they have. I watched a special on HDs a few months ago and they had alot of new technology built into the bikes. Unfortunately, I don't remember what they were anymore. I do remember thinking "damn that's pretty cool".

I don't care what anyone rides, I looked at some Harleys when I bought my MS, but couldn't see paying 4x more for a machine that does the same thing. For some people it's about belonging to that clique. I do give Harley riders a hard time, because it's fun, and I do it jokingly. However there are some assholes out there on Harleys, but there are assholes on every type of bike....especially the sport bike riders.

(If I offended you.....GOOD!! Grow some thicker skin!!)

[kreator]

I loved my Busa too, I have as much brand loyalty toward Suzuki as I do H-D that is just because it's what I like. I have never seen a sales person tlak to a customer like this though talking about the brand etc. I just like the idea of being able to ride several hundred miles and be comfortable, that is why I have a Road King.

I do however have to disagree with people that say HD does not make a quality product. When working on my Busa I have broken several bolts, stripped threads, replaced bent washers etc, this just does not happen often on a HD simply because the product is better quality, you are not going to break the head off a bolt on a harley from turning it too hard.

Look at the quality of the chrome.. Can you really state a case that the chrome on a Honda is better than HD? You can look at a brand new Honda in the showroom and tell simply by looking at the chrome, HD is of better quality.

For some reason brand loyalty is fine, unless it's Harley or Apple.

Edited April 13, 2010 by kreator

[kreator]

Great marketing' date=' that's all. You can't fault them for it. It's their business to sell bikes and accessories and clothing. They do it very well. So well, in fact, that they've almost sold themselves out of the market.

As for the metric cruiser vs HD comments... I've only ridden a few cruisers. A Victory 8-Ball, a Harley Davidson Road King, a Vulcan 2000, VTX 1800, and a handful of Shadows and whatnot. The Victory and HD were superior bikes in just about every way. The big Vulcan was cool, but you couldn't ride it with any sort of confidence in its agility. The Victory did really well on a ride up OH800 a couple years ago.

However....$20,000 superior? I doubt it.[/quote']

Victory 8 ball is $14,900.. Road king is $16,900.. RK comes with windscreen and hard bags.. RK is considered a "Touring" bike

[Tpoppa]

If you have no technology to market, then cater to the poser aspect of motorcycling.

BMW (car) sales do the same thing, market to how people will look at you. But they have technology too.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Tpoppa

[Zach]

I'm sure the ducati and bmw sales manuals are just about the same.

[kreator]

Tax' date=' tags, doc fees.... = Twenty Large.[/quote']

Nope, those are list prices, both before tax, prep.. Just like any other dealership you can usually get out of paying prep, but you are not going to avoid taxes.

[curby]

the good ol' "Metric vs. H-D" debate...

H-D's quality has definately improved over the past 4-8 years. i actually considered buying one when i realized i wanted a cruiser. But seeing how my pockets weren't that deep for what i wanted, i went with something more my budget. I will own a H-D sometime but i will never be disappointed in my decision to buy my Warrior. I doubt i will ever get rid of it. I can honestly say i have never been on a H-D to compare to the Warrior. I know alot of hardcore H-D riders and i was kinda nervous about riding my bike over to one of their houses knowing i'd get harassed about my "jap" bike. I did as soon as i got there but once i started talking to them about it and throwing specs out there, they really started to appreciate it. Hell, the one guy i really worried about said he loved it... other then the forward controls. lol

[Zach]

Yeah' date=' because a BMW or a Ducati don't sell themselves. [/quote']

And harleys don't?

I'm not bashing anybody, but all 3 are niche brands that sell a lifestyle.

[RFM]

Anybody who has ridden a twin can tell you, chicks dig v-twins. Buzzy fours don't do the same to a back seat rider... Lol!

I like faster twins. Win all the way around.

[Artmageddon]

the good ol' "Metric vs. H-D" debate...

H-D's quality has definately improved over the past 4-8 years. i actually considered buying one when i realized i wanted a cruiser. But seeing how my pockets weren't that deep for what i wanted, i went with something more my budget. I will own a H-D sometime but i will never be disappointed in my decision to buy my Warrior. I doubt i will ever get rid of it. I can honestly say i have never been on a H-D to compare to the Warrior. I know alot of hardcore H-D riders and i was kinda nervous about riding my bike over to one of their houses knowing i'd get harassed about my "jap" bike. I did as soon as i got there but once i started talking to them about it and throwing specs out there, they really started to appreciate it. Hell, the one guy i really worried about said he loved it... other then the forward controls. lol

I love your bike, I would rock that for sure.

[fusion]

And harleys don't?

I'm not bashing anybody, but all 3 are niche brands that sell a lifestyle.

How are you using the term "niche brand"?

[kreator]

the good ol' "Metric vs. H-D" debate...

H-D's quality has definately improved over the past 4-8 years. i actually considered buying one when i realized i wanted a cruiser. But seeing how my pockets weren't that deep for what i wanted, i went with something more my budget. I will own a H-D sometime but i will never be disappointed in my decision to buy my Warrior. I doubt i will ever get rid of it. I can honestly say i have never been on a H-D to compare to the Warrior. I know alot of hardcore H-D riders and i was kinda nervous about riding my bike over to one of their houses knowing i'd get harassed about my "jap" bike. I did as soon as i got there but once i started talking to them about it and throwing specs out there, they really started to appreciate it. Hell, the one guy i really worried about said he loved it... other then the forward controls. lol

That is a great bike, most people would think so.

[kreator]

I don't care what anyone rides, I looked at some Harleys when I bought my MS, but couldn't see paying 4x more for a machine that does the same thing. For some people it's about belonging to that clique. I do give Harley riders a hard time, because it's fun, and I do it jokingly. However there are some assholes out there on Harleys, but there are assholes on every type of bike....especially the sport bike riders.

(If I offended you.....GOOD!! Grow some thicker skin!!)

If you were looking at used harley's the same year as your mean streak, then that would mean that the harley held it's value at 4x because the cost of a new bike would not be 4x the cost.

If you look at kawasaki.com look at bikes that would compare to the road king, prices are not 4x. 2010 Nomad $15,100 2010 Road King $16,900

[Zach]

How are you using the term "niche brand"?

A brand that titillates a certain type of rider for the majority of its customer base. The customer identifies their self with the bike and it can be seen as an accessory more than a vehicle. The brand does not hold a major portion of market share do to bike availability and/or price.

Outliers to be expected.

[Rjettman]

I got my first Harley this year and so far have put about 250 miles on it. Never have been a Harley lover or hater, I have just never had any interest in cruising or low, slow bikes. But, the wife has never been comfortable on the back of my ZX-10, ZX-11 or FJR-1300 and when I get it up to a speed that is "normal" for me, she usually won't speak to me for days. Change was in order.

Ripping up the twisties has always been fun and still is, problem is, in NE Ohio, there aren't many twisties to be had. When I ride through the metroparks, I usually see a ranger every 10 minutes so getting up to a reasonable pace for a sportbike is difficult. Everywhere else is pretty far away, and no matter how hard I try, that rear tire of mine always wears out in the middle first. What can ya do?

Owning a Harley was always on my bucket list and now was the time. I knew I didn't want the standard engine, so I went with the 110 inch (1800cc) screaming eagle motor on the CVO softtail convertible. I know, its Ohio, should have got the hardtop. I figured I would need the big engine because I just won't tolerate a slow bike. After the break in period is over, I will probably dyno it, put new cams in it, maybe do the stage 1 kit or maybe take the rope off its neck and put a less restrictive pipe on it. I don't care if it does 200MPH, but I do care how fast it goes from 0-80, so that will be something to figure out. The hardest part for me so far has been the relaxed riding position. Being on sportbikes and sport-tourers for so long, putting my feet out in front of me just ain't natural. But I'm getting used to it.

So far, I like the bike and I like the potential for modification. After I get rid of the FJR, I will probably be in the market for a sportbike to ride when I want to have some fun on my own. HD's biggest problem in my opinion is over reliance on T-shirt sales and the finance division for profits. The best rate available from HD finance was 9%. I went with a credit union for 5%.

I could care less about being a HOG member or huge group rides. I'm joining the Hell's Angels. Ok maybe not but I felt bad for some new HOG members I met that were begging me to join. I guess its quite a clicky group with seniority meaning something and they were having a hard time being the new guys. Sounds like high school all over again. No thanks. But I do like the bike, so far. If that changes you guys will be the first to know.

[Steve Butters]

only thing i cant stand about cruisers is the stance youre in when you sit on them (not talking about my bike, i mean full out cruisers)....i dont feel like im ready to react or ready to really control the bike in an emergency....legs out in front of me instead of down at my side doesnt feel safe IMO, neither does leaning back instead of being forward and ready to manuever.... with the drag bars on my bike, its the perfect middle between cruiser and sport, i have a very forward stance without laying on the tank