why did you get off the street

[Moto-Brian]

hehe i see my wife lol

When did she get a black ZX-6R with yellow number plates?

Love ya, Andy. Merry Christmas!!!

[Moto-Brian]

track time makes the street boring or dangerous.

I disagree. I think it causes you to be more aware and obviously a bit more alert and possibly paranoid at times. But, that reserve I talk about gets higher and higher the more you grow and learn as a rider...

[twisted12]

I did a KTM day at Mid OH last year. Loved the bike, and the track was definitely fun but I just didn't get the track 'bug.' I may do another trackday, but I prefer a 4-500 mile day in SE OH or WV.

Tickets are cheaper than trackdays anyway.

I hear ya I know I will defiantly do some track days next year, but I do like the southern Ohio rides.

[Josh1234]

About how much does a novice day cost? Does one bring a street bike to it, or do they rent bikes?

[Moto-Brian]

About how much does a novice day cost? Does one bring a street bike to it, or do they rent bikes?

Actually, Mid-Ohio does have some KTMs they use for rental use. However, it is easily a way to get the bike you own to the track as they make it VERY user friendly to make it out and try the track days whether through STT, Mid-Ohio, Moto Series, etc. All have a novice program and it is VERY unintimidating to go through.

I suggest a novice program to anyone that has never been on the track. Even numerous years of aggressive street riding as again, there are a LOT of bad habits that are developed as street riders and going through the novice program is something that will help a lot rather than thrown to the wolves in the "I" group...

[speedytriple]

I agree riding the track makes street riding more dangerous. Because you get use to riding groomed tracks with no traffic on coming, and no variables that you don't know are coming from the last ten laps you already did. So i must agree riding the track makes you a more dangerous street rider if you stay off the street for to long.

[NinjaNick]

I suggest a novice program to anyone that has never been on the track. Even numerous years of aggressive street riding as again, there are a LOT of bad habits that are developed as street riders and going through the novice program is something that will help a lot rather than thrown to the wolves in the "I" group...

Yep, I agree. The novice blew my mind and I learned alot. I also was shocked at how hard we were pushing it as a group. My first track day I got a knee down following the 1st group of the novice group. I was amazed at how fast we went compared to fast on the street. Seeing balled up rubber all over my tires and wheels blew me away. I learned alot. I recommend atleast 1 for everyone. Think of it as a MSF course that is 200x better.

I only ride street but the track made me the great confident street rider I am and why people get shocked at how I ride my zx14.

[drew95gt]

I can see where you adrenaline junkies would LOVE the track for speed and such, but I ride more to relax and clear my head not to go balls out. That said, I would love to try a track day just to see what it is like...and to see how slow of a rider I really am lol. I don't see me giving up the street though because, like Hoblick, I enjoy the sport touring side of it.

[Moto-Brian]

I agree riding the track makes street riding more dangerous. Because you get use to riding groomed tracks with no traffic on coming, and no variables that you don't know are coming from the last ten laps you already did. So i must agree riding the track makes you a more dangerous street rider if you stay off the street for to long.

Not sure who you've been around that has done track days and feels like they And ride like that on the street. I would guess you haven't taken a track day to understand.

The reality is that you will LEARN more not only about yourself, but your bike as well. You would be an absolute moron to think you can ride like that on the street. The idea is to learn what you CANNOT learn on the street. Now, I believe there is a lot to learn on the street as well, but there is no way you can ride like you can on the track on the street.

[Tpoppa]

I would agree that the track is a good place to learn. And the instruction at the track is VERY good information. However, this notion that the track is the ONLY place to learn proper riding technique is just incorrect. Sorry.

I have been fortunate enough to ride with some ACE riders over the years. I have picked their brains on many occasions. The stuff I have learned at gas stops and by following their lines through technical backroads has been priceless. And it happens to be the same information taught at trackdays.

There are no top secret riding instructions that you can ONLY hear by going to a track. The same information is available in many books, sportrider.com, and in the heads of countless riders who are more than willing to share. This is in no way a slam on trackdays or formal instruction, just pointing out that the same information is available from multiple sources.

Now, if accelerating at WOT out of corners and hard braking into corners is what gets your blood pumping, I will agree that that type of ridng should be confined to a closed course.

Straight line speed just isn't my thing. I am more interested in smoothly, carrying quick corner speeds while using proper cornering technique. While not for everyone, it can be safely accompished on the street. I know many highly skilled riders that have been doing this type of riding for years. If you can get the right type of group together with strong ride leaders this type of riding is great fun. If you're curious, we do plenty of 300-400-500 miles rides every year.

Lots of skills overlap between riding street and track, however there are some notable differences. Being quick on the track does not automatically mean you will be a fast street rider (the opposite is also true). I have encountered more than a few experienced track riders that for whatever reason, just were not comfortable at the front of the 'fast' group on a street ride. In fairness, I also know plenty of track riders that are fantastic street riders.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Tpoppa

[speedytriple]

I know a few riders that were off the street for a few years and now are uncomfortable riding on the street at a brisk pace. They became to sheltered by clean tracks with no traffic or blind hills.

[jbot]

did we have this EXACT thread like a year or two back?

[speedytriple]

And the year before that I think lol. Shut your mouth you track whore Jbot.

[madcat6183]

Its winter, we gotta have something nice to read Jinu. Just go love Gatsby more.

[redkow97]

I agree riding the track makes street riding more dangerous. Because you get use to riding groomed tracks with no traffic on coming, and no variables that you don't know are coming from the last ten laps you already did. So i must agree riding the track makes you a more dangerous street rider if you stay off the street for to long.

I don't think this is a fair statement. I don't take anything for granted just because I'm "used to" track riding.

I think of track riding as if you're swinging 2 baseball bats before going up to the plate with 1. It makes everything less dramatic in a street scenario. If I'm used to encountering a given situation on the track at 100+ mph, encountering it on the street at 70mph makes it feel like slow-motion. Much easier to handle without drama.

Track riding builds your skill set so that you have more in reserve on the street.

Edited December 27, 2011 by redkow97

[Tpoppa]

I know the journey is the destination' date=' but riding in circles for twenty minutes at a time just ain't my bag, Baby.

Besides, the race track took my azn friend away from me. A blow from which I'll never be able to recover.[/quote']

[jbot]

if i rode anymore weekends last year, i would have been short by 1 cook/maid/realrealdoll/etc and good help is hard to find.

this year, i plan to ride more street. i have plans bros, plans.

plus track is so much fun! i can perform applied material mechanical limits testing in real time.

[Moto-Brian]

I know the journey is the destination' date=' but riding in circles for twenty minutes at a time just ain't my bag, Baby.

Besides, the race track took my azn friend away from me. A blow from which I'll never be able to recover.[/quote']

That sucks, man. I too have lost friends from racing and there will never be anything to fill the voids they left behind. I am sorry for your loss...

The running around in circles is something that leaves me puzzled. That indicates to me that you apparently didn't enjoy your track day. That's cool. But, I can ride the same track numerous times every season and find challenges that make me ride better overall... If it becomes boring and stale and feels like going in circles for hours at a time, it just isn't the hobby for you and that's totally cool.

As for the notion that you can learn just as much (not your comment, Papa) on the street as the track is what I mean coming from guys that think they can do track easily because they are street warriors.

I agree, there are things you can learn as a street rider, but if they are regurgitating Keith Code info, info from their buddies that race/track day, or what they heard at their track day they went to, it is still racetrack info and info that really cannot be learned on a street.

You will never find the limits on a regular basis of your bike while street riding. The guys that think they spin up the rear, tuck the front, etc are having SLIGHT changes in what they are doing and it feels like they spun up the rear, tucked the front, etc. The reality is they probably had the rear squirm and most likely didn't even step it out, but had soft rear sag and the squatting and movement of the chassis and suspension made the feeling of stepping out the rear. You cannot learn those things at speed on the street. And, if you say you can and have seen it or done it, it is only a matter of time before we see a thread for rider down and your name...

I don't think you NEED or HAVE to go to the track to be a better rider. Not at all. I do, however contest that a track day rider that is seasoned and has a genuine level of experience from the track will become a MUCH better street rider. It's like the baseball comment from Red. I can have my son hit at pitches thrown at about 55 mph and hit the ball every time. But, if he practices with a pitcher that throws at 90 mph, he will eventually become better at hitting and when that pitcher throws him another 55 mph pitch, he will certainly hit it, but he will also be much more relaxed in the box and probably be able to place the ball, see things in a wider scope and be able to probably hit it further and with greater results...

Dunno... Whatever you choose as a rider, it is about the ride, the destination and what you want from where you go and what you do... I think we are all on the same page, but it tends to get into a track vs street debate and typically it is ugly before it gets better...

[Moto-Brian]

I know a few riders that were off the street for a few years and now are uncomfortable riding on the street at a brisk pace. They became to sheltered by clean tracks with no traffic or blind hills.

The guys that are under this set if thoughts are not very good track riders then in my opinion... There is a shit load of traffic and all at a pace that surpasses what you'll find on the street. The amount of time you have to make proper decisions, the amount of smoothness you are in need of to get through traffic on the track, etc is very much something that is so much faster than that found on the street that when you go from track to street, it is all in slow motion...

Clean tracks and no blind hills, eh? You obviously haven't met guys that have ridden road courses. Mid-Ohio has numerous blind turns. Nelson is by far not a "clean track" and the flattest track we ever see is probably Putnam and honestly, there are a few turns that you'll never really catch in the street world at the speeds they are hit at that facility.

Again, I don't mind healthy and productive debates, but so far, what you have told us about your friends, they are probably at the very bottom in terms of track day riders we are referring to... No offense as I am sure your friends are great guys, but from what you are saying, they are a VERY small % of the real world results from a majority of track day riders...

[speedytriple]

Wow you have had traffic that was on coming at the track!!! Did they get kick out for going the wrong way? Lap traffic is in no means similar to a f150 crossing the double yellow line over a blind hill

[redkow97]

Wow you have had traffic that was on coming at the track!!! Did they get kick out for going the wrong way? Lap traffic is in no means similar to a f150 crossing the double yellow line over a blind hill

I hope you're not implying that the danger of oncoming traffic is some kind of badge of honor that proves street riders have bigger balls.

There are dangerous aspects to street and track. What I think the track guys are struggling to understand is why the street folks seem to think that gravel in the road and cars crossing the center line makes the street "better."

I 1000% acknowledge that track riding has its dangers (increased speed being the most obvious), but I haven't seen anyone brag about it being more dangerous purely for the sake of danger.

speed is fun. is an F150 crossing the center line part of the enjoyment for you?

[RVTPilot]

I agree riding the track makes street riding more dangerous. Because you get use to riding groomed tracks with no traffic on coming, and no variables that you don't know are coming from the last ten laps you already did. So i must agree riding the track makes you a more dangerous street rider if you stay off the street for to long.

I will agree to disagree on this. Being capable of circumnavigating a track does not make the street any more dangerous than it already is. Any rider worth their salt on a track has the mental wherewithal to be cognizant of the potential hazards found on the street and would adjust accordingly. Guys who jump out to the track just to learn to be nothing more than faster on the street are fucktards. And guys who spend the majority of their time on the track that would chose to ride with more discretion on the street aren't more dangerous or are sheltered just because they chose to exercise some discipline in an unpredictable riding environment. Being a capable and confident street rider has a valuable list of merits associated with it. The same is said for those that exercise the limits of our beloved sport in its proper environment for doing so.

I concur with Brian in the 'running in circles' reply. It simply isn't like that in reality at the track (though everyone is entitled to their own persepctive and opinion). Even with the expansive gap between Brian and I in talent and experience on the track, I'm comfortable saying we both argree that seldom are two laps identical. And if you find yourself stringing together multiple identical laps, you are either in elite territory in the sport, or doing it wrong. As I am working to improve my abilities on the track and actually make the laps seem similar, they are as different as anything worth encountering of the unpredictable nature on the street, which is a rather short list for sure. It takes nothing more than one more bike braking into a corner or ever the angle of sunlight on the racing surface to change how the game is played at that point. The amount of effort and skill required to shave off the slightest fragments of a second off one's lap time and the associated challenge is what entices me to leave the street for the track.

And mind you, I am not trying to imply that I am anything fast on the track. I am far from it. But I am for more intrigued at the idea of getting better on the track than I am on the street. Years of commuting with my FZR600 as my sole source of transportation accompanying countelss trips to The Gap and assorted trips have my cup full in that regard. I do enjoy a sunny Sunday ride with the gang, and even would like to do the lap around Lake Erie sometime. But I wouldn't cancel a track date to do it.

[RVTPilot]

I hope you're not implying that the danger of oncoming traffic is some kind of badge of honor that proves street riders have bigger balls.

There are dangerous aspects to street and track. What I think the track guys are struggling to understand is why the street folks seem to think that gravel in the road and cars crossing the center line makes the street "better."

I 1000% acknowledge that track riding has its dangers (increased speed being the most obvious), but I haven't seen anyone brag about it being more dangerous purely for the sake of danger.

speed is fun. is an F150 crossing the center line part of the enjoyment for you?

Agree completely, Chris. The track is not by definition safe. The street, even less so. Motorcycling isn't safe. If it were, our mothers would fight one another to get us bikes as adolescent Christmas gifts the way they do Cabbage Patch Dolls. And I find nothing exhilarating about a street ride where the best part of the ride was saving a back end washout after hitting unseen sugar sand, pea gravel, or leaked fluids mid-corner. It has also been my experience that those that thought themselves to have big nards for how they rode on the street had a disproportionately sized brain. I see far less of that on the track.

[Moto-Brian]

Wow you have had traffic that was on coming at the track!!! Did they get kick out for going the wrong way? Lap traffic is in no means similar to a f150 crossing the double yellow line over a blind hill

Dude, you don't get it.

[Moto-Brian]

Well stated responses RVT!!!

And to add, it has nothing to do with the differences in riders' abilities at the track or on the street. I appreciate the kind words, but we are all in the same sport and enthusiasts in the same hobby. We are all capable of learning and capable of getting better. Even the MotoGP God, Rossi learns as he goes through every season. If he is, we are and we are all in it together.

Sure, there may be faster riders than others, slower than others as well. BUT, the fact is that we all can learn and we ALL can get better. It's how we get better and what we take from it and how we apply it...

Everyday, every lap, every mistake, every crash. Every time, I learn, I grow or I push myself to learn and experience...