Trayvon Martin case will not go to the Grand Jury

[John]

Actually his dad didn't/doesn't live there. His dad's fiance does. They were visiting, so he was a stranger to the neighborhood. Not justifying anything, just trying to help get the facts out there.

interesting. i had not seen that yet.

[Exarch]

When does being a visitor constitute being a stranger? People are nosey, hell I live in a private neighborhood where apparently everyone knows everyone and everything that goes on except me me... I know maybe 5neighbors and my 10 inlaws houses and I could care less who comes in and around the neighborhood aslong as they arnt doing anything wrong. Although I always yell at the teens walking around swearing left and right.cuz we have alot of little kids around, other than that I keep to myself... We all know the saying curiosity killed the cat....

[Casper]

When does being a visitor constitute being a stranger? People are nosey, hell I live in a private neighborhood where apparently everyone knows everyone and everything that goes on except me me... I know maybe 5neighbors and my 10 inlaws houses and I could care less who comes in and around the neighborhood aslong as they arnt doing anything wrong. Although I always yell at the teens walking around swearing left and right.cuz we have alot of little kids around, other than that I keep to myself... We all know the saying curiosity killed the cat....

Uhm, a stranger means you're strange to the area, as in not normally there. A visitor isn't normally there. So they're a stranger to the neighborhood.

[Exarch]

Uhm, a stranger means you're strange to the area, as in not normally there. A visitor isn't normally there. So they're a stranger to the neighborhood.

Actually, since he was VISITING his dads fiance that would make him a visitor not a stranger. the old man was quick to jump the gun(pun intended) instead of taking the time to figure out why this.kid.was here or try to initiate small talk to find out more info..

Im sure he would of seen alot more of that kid around every now and then if he didnt kilo him.

[Steve Butters]

In my neighborhood I have never seen a hooded individual walking around at night but if I do I will follow him out.

1. 7:30 PM isnt what i consider "night"...but whatever

2. why would you follow them? mind your own business - look out for your property and let them be on their way....this America, they have the right to walk around at "night", who are you to try and tell them otherwise? oh thats right...dictator of the neighborhood, my bad Mr. Zimmerman

If he had a logical reason to be in the neighborhood after hours, he should not have a problem identifying himself and his purpose there. When he saw Zimmerman following him a simple I am just headed home would have calmed the situation.

He has the right to walk and not have to be interrogated. If I was walking home from the gas station and some dude stops me and asks for a logical reason for me being there, ill tell them to fuck themselves. If you asked me if I needed help or was lost, I would answer No and keep walking. If you then asked me why I'm walking down your street, I'll tell you its none of your business. He did not have to explain himself to Zimmerman, not even "I'm just walking home." Who is Zimmerman? NOBODY.

Look like a thug at 10:30 at night expect to be considered a thug.

1. it was 7:30, not 10:30

2. "look like a thug".....how so? because he was black? or because he had his hood up? because neither of those factors make any fucking sense at all...i wear my hood up all the time, especially when its cold. sure this was florida, but it was in february. I was there in January and while it was 80 during the day, it was in the 40s at night. Soon as the sun went down, hoodies went on. Wearing a hood up in the winter doesnt make someone a thug. That is one of the dumbest things ive read on OR and thats saying a lot. So, it must be because he is black, because obviously nobody is dumb enough to think hoodie = thug.

I have a CCW so I am usually armed and ready.

this terrifies me.

[John]

sure this was florida, but it was in february. I was there in January and while it was 80 during the day, it was in the 40s at night. Soon as the sun went down, hoodies went on.

the other thing to remember... even if it was 60, people who live in south florida think thats freezing cold, and they all bust out the long pants, hoodies and jackets.

when its 60 up here, i see people in shorts and flip flops lol

[Bad324]

1. 7:30 PM isnt what i consider "night"...but whatever

2. why would you follow them? mind your own business - look out for your property and let them be on their way....this America, they have the right to walk around at "night", who are you to try and tell them otherwise? oh thats right...dictator of the neighborhood, my bad Mr. Zimmerman

again I may be against the norm but not once but TWICE had I actually followed a shady looking individual I would've prevented 2 crimes. For that, I will always choose to follow a shady looking individual until I deem it safe

[Casper]

1. 7:30 PM isnt what i consider "night"...but whatever

The sun set at 6:22PM on February 26th in Sanford, FL. So 7:30PM is kinda night, or at least quite dark, especially if it was raining as someone else mentioned.

2. why would you follow them? mind your own business - look out for your property and let them be on their way....this America, they have the right to walk around at "night", who are you to try and tell them otherwise? oh thats right...dictator of the neighborhood, my bad Mr. Zimmerman

I look out for my neighbors and their stuff all the time, and they look out for us.

Just wanting to clarify.

I haven't finished reading this, but it seems about as unbiased as it gets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

I know, I know, wikipedia boo...

[Steve Butters]

again I may be against the norm but not once but TWICE had I actually followed a shady looking individual I would've prevented 2 crimes. For that, I will always choose to follow a shady looking individual until I deem it safe

[Steve Butters]

The sun set at 6:22PM on February 26th in Sanford, FL. So 7:30PM is kinda night, or at least quite dark, especially if it was raining as someone else mentioned.

I look out for my neighbors and their stuff all the time, and they look out for us.

Just wanting to clarify.

I haven't finished reading this, but it seems about as unbiased as it gets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

I know, I know, wikipedia boo...

to me - theres a difference in the sun going down and it being "night"....7:30 people are still out and active, the sun set only an hour before so theres probably still trace amounts of light, people walking around should not be seen as suspicious.....its not like it was 3am and someone was sneaking through the bushes

and theres a difference in looking out for you and your neighbor vs following someone and pretending youre a police officer

[shittygsxr]

Honestly if someone introduced themselves as neighborhood watch as I was walking down the street, I would lightly converse and then thank them for taking a moment to talk to me. Furthermore I would thank them for stepping up to take back the neighborhood that has gone to shit in short order.

I know how much my property value has gone down since all of the crime came in. I would thank anyone who gets that value back for me.

[KZ900]

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Edited November 13, 2012 by KZ900

[Exarch]

I thought it was 10:30 at night as you can see from my posts. He may have the right to walk in the neighborhood, but I also have the right to follow him. My neighborhood is my business. We live in a weird world with some real idiots. I wasn't there at the time all I can do is imagine the situation on my street. They haven't filed any charges yet so I would assume they don't have enough yet or think the guy is innocent. It sure sounds like Trevor was looking for trouble and found it. He could have called the police himself but he did not...Why if he felt in danger from Zimmerman didn't he? And yes you walk down my street in the dark with a HOODIE on after we have had several breakins in the area you can bet your life I will watch you close. All you have to do is say hello and show your face. What are you hiding for?

I wear my hoodie at night, tends to get cold and windy. This is no reason to follow/stalk someone. I know if some creep was following me I would consider it stalking and no I wouldnt ask him politely why he is stalking me as I would assume he is up to no good. That old man is just creepy and he seems to me like he was the one looking for trouble. Hell if that fuck was following me and I had a knife or gun ide pull the shit out for my own safety.

No one has any business approaching someone in the dark after stalking them, thats just asking for trouble. You say the kid was lookin for trouble cuz he said somrthing rude or whatever to the old man? Well shit I would too, ide threatin his old ass that of he didnt stop following me I would fuck him up.

Now im sure you know, as you eernt born yestersay, that people who stalk other people are usually up to no good. and even if the old.man wasnt up to no good how would u feel if he was stalking you? Put yourself in the kids position(walkin down the street) then put yourself in the old mans position(creepy stalker) which would make you feel safer? Im sure you would feel safer being the stalker not the person being stalked.

[RVTPilot]

It sure sounds like Trevor was looking for trouble and found it.

This is the line that I really have to question. Tell me how this kid was looking for trouble by walking with his hood up? Throughout the thread it's been fairly well stated that walking with your hood up - as many of us do - is not the tell-tale sign of someone being up to something. That comment above reeks of just as much speculation of anything that would be used in defense of Martin. You have no way of proving what his intentions or actions were. To Zimmerman's benefit, he's killed the only person that could either contest or validate his self defense claims. That hardly makes Martin the aggressor here, nor does it mean that Zimmerman overreacted in defending himself. Yet therein lies the issue. There's no proof either way. You are painting Martin as the bad guy simply because he chose to dress in a means that incites paranoia in you. I can't sit here and say that Zimmerman is guilty of cold blooded murder (which I don't believe) just as you cannot sit here and justifiably argue that Martin was looking for trouble.

[Bad324]

I probably would have joked too but considering the outcome to a female friend of mine I will not let that happen again. You know were cool and its just a healthy debate but you're young and haven't been around much from what I know. Trust me when I say you would probably change the way you operated if such a traumatic occurence happend to a friend knowing you could've done something to stop it

[Steve Butters]

We live in a weird world with some real idiots.

[Steve Butters]

I probably would have joked too but considering the outcome to a female friend of mine I will not let that happen again. You know were cool and its just a healthy debate but you're young and haven't been around much from what I know. Trust me when I say you would probably change the way you operated if such a traumatic occurence happend to a friend knowing you could've done something to stop it

im not in your shoes, so i cant say how i would react in your position - all i know is how i currently feel, and i currently feel that it is not a good idea to tail every person you see that looks "suspicious" ... does stuff happen? yes. but im gonna go out on a limb and say that more incidents will happen due to you following someone than if you let them be. if im walking down the street and i see some guy watching me and sneaking around following me - theres going to be a problem, even if im not up to no good....ive been held up at gun point at night before and jumped/robbed, and i saw the guys coming....i was under the mind set "nah, wont happen to me"....so i kept on about my business, and sure enough it happened....if i was in that position again, and i see someone following me or "stalking" me, as soon as they attempt to make contact with me, there will be a problem.

im all for defending those around you, and defending youself, and im sorry for what happened to your friend and for the feelings of guilt you have about it, but i still believe it to be unwise to start a confrontation with somebody who may or may not be simply walking down the street. if im that worried about a shady individual, i will call the police and let them deal with it. but im not under the mindset that every black person in a hoodie is a thug, so unless i had a reason to think they were up to something (besides simply seeing them walking) i wouldnt even call the police

[Exarch]

im not in your shoes, so i cant say how i would react in your position - all i know is how i currently feel, and i currently feel that it is not a good idea to tail every person you see that looks "suspicious" ... does stuff happen? yes. but im gonna go out on a limb and say that more incidents will happen due to you following someone than if you let them be. if im walking down the street and i see some guy watching me and sneaking around following me - theres going to be a problem, even if im not up to no good....ive been held up at gun point at night before and jumped/robbed, and i saw the guys coming....i was under the mind set "nah, wont happen to me"....so i kept on about my business, and sure enough it happened....if i was in that position again, and i see someone following me or "stalking" me, as soon as they attempt to make contact with me, there will be a problem.

im all for defending those around you, and defending youself, and im sorry for what happened to your friend and for the feelings of guilt you have about it, but i still believe it to be unwise to start a confrontation with somebody who may or may not be simply walking down the street. if im that worried about a shady individual, i will call the police and let them deal with it. but im not under the mindset that every black person in a hoodie is a thug, so unless i had a reason to think they were up to something (besides simply seeing them walking) i wouldnt even call the police

:+1: ^^^^ I dont see how this seems to not make sense to alot of people ^^^^

[crb]

Are we still discussing this?

[Bad324]

:+1: ^^^^ I dont see how this seems to not make sense to alot of people ^^^^

it does make sense. But in my situation I won't let it happen again and I'd rather be in the position of this Zimmerman fellow than in the position of not doing something preventative. True to my character, I'd much rather take the risk than let my friends and family having their safety at risk.

[Uncle Punk]

That old man is just creepy and he seems to me like he was the one looking for trouble. Hell if that fuck was following me and I had a knife or gun ide pull the shit out for my own safety.

He most certainly was looking for trouble. The reason he was out there doing a community watch was because someone was bringing trouble to the neighborhood. He was trying to prevent any further mischief by letting it be know to the cowards that were causing the issues they weren't doing it in a vacuum. I can't imagine people who were in the area were threatened or bothered by someone looking out for their best interests. If the kid took exception to that and decided that he would confront the concerned citizen by acting like a thug then that’s on him. I would expect that a conversation about whom he knew or why he was there would have made things a lot easier for both of them but that's not what happened. It sounds to me like the kid was looking for trouble just as much as the old man because I doubt the kid was shot for politely replying to a concerned citizen in the neighborhood. He was under no obligation to endure an interrogation for merely existing but having a chip on your shoulder, eluding, confronting or attacking someone is not innocent.

I don’t know what happened just as much as any of us debating this but if you are surprised by people who are concerned about their neighborhood and feel that confronting them for being concerned is a proper way to handle yourself don’t be surprised if you don’t like the results of your actions.

[Bad324]

He most certainly was looking for trouble. The reason he was out there doing a community watch was because someone was bringing trouble to the neighborhood. He was trying to prevent any further mischief by letting it be know to the cowards that were causing the issues they weren't doing it in a vacuum. I can't imagine people who were in the area were threatened or bothered by someone looking out for their best interests. If the kid took exception to that and decided that he would confront the concerned citizen by acting like a thug then that’s on him. I would expect that a conversation about whom he knew or why he was there would have made things a lot easier for both of them but that's not what happened. It sounds to me like the kid was looking for trouble just as much as the old man because I doubt the kid was shot for politely replying to a concerned citizen in the neighborhood. He was under no obligation to endure an interrogation for merely existing but having a chip on your shoulder, eluding, confronting or attacking someone is not innocent.

I don’t know what happened just as much as any of us debating this but if you are surprised by people who are concerned about their neighborhood and feel that confronting them for being concerned is a proper way to handle yourself don’t be surprised if you don’t like the results of your actions.

my sentiments exactly, I'm just not smart enough to put it this well said

[Exarch]

He most certainly was looking for trouble. The reason he was out there doing a community watch was because someone was bringing trouble to the neighborhood. He was trying to prevent any further mischief by letting it be know to the cowards that were causing the issues they weren't doing it in a vacuum. I can't imagine people who were in the area were threatened or bothered by someone looking out for their best interests. If the kid took exception to that and decided that he would confront the concerned citizen by acting like a thug then that’s on him. I would expect that a conversation about whom he knew or why he was there would have made things a lot easier for both of them but that's not what happened. It sounds to me like the kid was looking for trouble just as much as the old man because I doubt the kid was shot for politely replying to a concerned citizen in the neighborhood. He was under no obligation to endure an interrogation for merely existing but having a chip on your shoulder, eluding, confronting or attacking someone is not innocent.

I don’t know what happened just as much as any of us debating this but if you are surprised by people who are concerned about their neighborhood and feel that confronting them for being concerned is a proper way to handle yourself don’t be surprised if you don’t like the results of your actions.

The old man had no right to do anything except call the cops(like a normal person) if he felt this guy was a threat. I sure as hell know I wouldnt approach or ask someone questions I thought was a gangbanger and I sure as hell wouldnt stalk them, thats what cops are for.

I suppose people with an age gap are gunna have a difference of opinion. I see old creepy stalkers as pedobears, crackheads, muggers. I see a black guy with a hoodie on walking around a neighborhood as some loser with no car walking to the mini mart to get a white owl so he can blaze up.

[KZ900]

...

Edited November 13, 2012 by KZ900

[Uncle Punk]

The old man had no right to do anything except call the cops(like a normal person) if he felt this guy was a threat. I sure as hell know I wouldnt approach or ask someone questions I thought was a gangbanger and I sure as hell wouldnt stalk them, thats what cops are for.

What a pussyfied stand to take, let someone else do it. The police had proven to be inadequate in the area already by the amount of crime that was taking place. (I don't blame the police; property crime shouldn't be a high priority.)This concerned citizen decided that he would be responsible and watch the area. He did call the police and they were still too busy with other business to have someone check out a suspicious person. We don't know what happened next but the existence of a neighborhood watch isn't a point to jump off of for a compelling argument.

I'm sorry if you don't have the fortitude to confront someone who you perceive to be a problem, others do, sometimes doing what you think is right isn't easy.