GM, your loan has been approved...

[yellowsnake]

70% of company as large as gm who close doors and go non-union have to hire imigrants b/c no one wants to work for that cheap. i was giving an example in buckeye steel.

[Nitrousbird]

70% of company as large as gm who close doors and go non-union have to hire imigrants b/c no one wants to work for that cheap. i was giving an example in buckeye steel.

Well, if it is a choice of having no income or at least some income, which would YOU choose?

 

These UAW people are WAY overpaid to do unskilled work. Period.

 

The UAW needs to go. They are what has been killing the Big 3 more than all other factors combined.

[XChris1632X]

At this rate I will never get a new Camaro. I have my fingers crossed that GM can make it.

[TTQ B4U]

yeah ur right. fuck the union. close the doors and open up non-union and hire all those forgeign fuck faces who work under the same ss#, live in one house and send there money back to mexico. good call dipshit.........

 

who said anything about hiring illegals? hell, IMO there are plenty of unemployed Americans that have the simple skills it takes to put a fucking door on a car or mount a windshield on the line that would be happy to take a union workers job at half of what these companies are paying these people. I'm sorry, but unions need to go.

 

i'm not saying the union is 100% correct and they should have worked a little with the first bailout but on the first bail out, the government wanted them to take a 50% pay cut for everyone. Do you think that you could have a family, house and car payment, make 60,000$/year and then go to making 30,000#/year?????

 

I don't know that they asked them to take a 50% pay cut. My understanding is the average total overhead cost, including benefits, etc...was around $73hr. vs the imports at like $48hr. That equates to the manufacturers needing to get the overall costs down roughly 34% lower than what they are now. 35% is a lot of extras that the union is causing them vs what the imports are having to deal with. I agree with congress, no sense in negotiations or providing help unless they can achieve that and be viable. Anything else is throwing good money after a lost cause. Again, ditch the union altogether.

 

Hell, the lawmakers have encouraged the union to accept company stock instead, the Union said no. Gee...they won't even fucking take ownership of their own company they work for. Pay the performers I say.....no different than sales. Maybe the workers will give a shit when they get paid based on performance. They sure as hell wouldn't likely want to see other workers being paid to do nothing like they do now.

 

You think the banks are in trouble now, make all those workers take that big a pay cut and there will be a SHIT ton of cars taking, and MORE house on the market. yeah smart move there.

 

The UAW has about 640k members. I highly doubt all 640k are going to go belly up having to take a pay cut. Hell, they are going to under with Zero income and Zero benny's if they don't, so, it's their call. UAW will then equal Unemployed Auto Worker. Make it work or GTFO :gtfo: . Besides, even if 50% of them did, another 320k homes on the market isn't going to bring down the world. Our economy needed this correction honestly. Let's just face it now and get it over with. The UAW has been living a lie for a long time...time for a reality check folks.

 

 

And as for them hiring foreign people. take buckeye "aka" columbus steel. Was a union company for YEARS. the company wanted them to take a pay cut b/c the profits where not as high as they wanted and the union said no and they closed doors. guess what, opened up non-union, hired people to do the SAME work for 8-12$/hr and 85% of the people worker there dont speak english and cant drive. Real smart move there wasn't it. Just close all union shops and hire everyone in non-union and pay them 50% less and no benifits and help the owners make there profit and fuck everyone else..........

 

pay cut now or a sharp stick in they eye and now job.....hmmm....maybe the unions need to realize they are not doing themselves any favors by driving the companies out of business. This is a work at will world and if folks don't want the pay they can join the ranks of the unemployed or they can get a job somewhere else. It just kills me that blue collar labor feels they are "entitled" to some of these things at the company's expense. Look what it's got them now.

 

The fucking jobs banks has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Everyone involved is getting a swift stick up their ass because they allowed that to even exist...serves them right IMO. ONly in America could a person get paid not to work...FUCKING UNION NONSENSE / BULLSHIT !! :gtfo:

[RX-7 Addict]

Anyone who lives in Ohio and is against the bailout is a moron.

 

Automotive factories and suppliers are a large part of the economies of the Midwest, especially Ohio. Not so much in Columbus, but Toledo , Cleveland, Lordstown, etc etc

[SpaceGhost]

My GM stock doubled

 

I missed where a 15% gain is "doubling".

[TA In Progress]

yeah ur right. fuck the union. close the doors and open up non-union and hire all those forgeign fuck faces who work under the same ss#, live in one house and send there money back to mexico. good call dipshit......... i'm not saying the union is 100% correct and they should have worked a little with the first bailout but on the first bail out, the government wanted them to take a 50% pay cut for everyone. Do you think that you could have a family, house and car payment, make 60,000$/year and then go to making 30,000#/year?????

 

You think the banks are in trouble now, make all those workers take that big a pay cut and there will be a SHIT ton of cars takin, and MORE house on the market. yeah smart move there.

 

 

And as for them hiring foreign people. take buckeye "aka" columbus steel. Was a union company for YEARS. the company wanted them to take a pay cut b/c the profits where not as high as they wanted and the union said no and they closed doors. guess what, opened up non-union, hired people to do the SAME work for 8-12$/hr and 85% of the people worker there dont speak english and cant drive. Real smart move there wasn't it. Just close all union shops and hire everyone in non-union and pay them 50% less and no benifits and help the owners make there profit and fuck everyone else..........

We probably should continue to pay people $25-$35 an hour to stick knobs on car radios and tighten lug nuts. The average starting pay for a commercial aviation mechanic, for example, is around $13 an hour. You can honestly say that installing door panels and steering wheels should pay more than a job that requires not only skill, but judgement that if made incorrectly could cost lives? I know people that have worked in unions that also limited your productivity. Even if you had nothing else to do, you weren't allowed to pick up a broom and sweep because that was someone else's job (in the union) and that was taking their job. Or if your contract said you could only test one circuit board an hour, that was all you were allowed to do, even though realistically you could do 20 an hour. That also makes a lot of sense. Unions were a necessary thing in the past, but anymore they have just become a way to for people to make a shitload of money for working at about 1/10th of they're capable of. In the end, I think the automakers should get bailed out, as long they're under strict supervision, and they need to lose the unions so they can pay their employees reaonable, not extravagant wages.

[caseyctsv]

Hopefully this will provide a bridge so that GM can get their new products to market. GM had made many cuts but they were not going to be effective until 2010 and they actually have some interesting stuff in the pipeline.

 

The UAW needs to go though. I love the comment from the Rep from Detroit, how he appreciates the bailout but does not likle the condition that they are going to have to cut wages. Some people just don't get it.

[gillbot]

The UAW needs to go though. I love the comment from the Rep from Detroit, how he appreciates the bailout but does not likle the condition that they are going to have to cut wages. Some people just don't get it.

How many companies have been run into the ground by the unions unwillingness to cooperate? Domestic steel is one of them. Many of those guys were paid 20-30+ an hour to push buttons and when asked to take concessions, they refused. Now look at the steel industry, it's all but nonexistent.

[SpaceGhost]

I realized Unions were a joke when I was 15. I started work at Kroger as a Bag boy. Being 15 and not working much what the fuck was the union going to do for me as a fucking bag boy MAKING MINIMUM WAGE? If the union was not there for me I would still make minimum wage..... No choice but to join the union or quit. When I saw what other bag boys were coming home with on their check after the Union raped them for nothing on top of all the other deductions, I said fuck off, clocked out and never came back. Hell my Check that I had to pay the Union from if I wanted to stay was my entire check. WTF.

 

Alas I am "Naive".....

[Brandon]

At this rate I will never get a new Camaro. I have my fingers crossed that GM can make it.

 

There was one of the new camaros at the GM high performance booth at PRI. It will be released

[ImUrOBGYN]

I realized Unions were a joke when I was 15. I started work at Kroger as a Bag boy. Being 15 and not working much what the fuck was the union going to do for me as a fucking bag boy MAKING MINIMUM WAGE? If the union was not there for me I would still make minimum wage..... No choice but to join the union or quit. When I saw what other bag boys were coming home with on their check after the Union raped them for nothing on top of all the other deductions, I said fuck off, clocked out and never came back. Hell my Check that I had to pay the Union from if I wanted to stay was my entire check. WTF.

 

Alas I am "Naive".....

Ha! Holy shit this is almost my story to the T. I did the same thing but I realized what a load of crap it was before I gave them money. They told me I didn't have to join in the beginning. Yet, they kept pressuring me. I noticed how all the union workers, from the other baggers on up, were all incredibly fucking lazy. They used to brag about how it was damn near impossible for them to get fired. Anyway, one day, a customer slips or some shit on some spilled liquid. All the baggers/peons, rotated on clean ups, cart gathering, bagging, returns, etc. I was eventually blamed and fired even though both bosses, hell, everyone, knew it wasn't my responsibility. It was simply being pinned on me. The non-union worker who actually busted his ass. Shit, I didn't even know what had happened since I'd been bagging and cart gathering.

I was told by one of the employees a few days later that if I returned and joined the union and apologized, I could have my job back. Apologize? For what? For contesting a wrongful fire? For contesting an obvious ruse? And I had to join? I told them to shove it up their ass. I then went to the Krogers the following day and told the boss to shove it up his ass, too, and to hand over my check. Of course, I never shopped there again, either.

There's my 'longer than I thought it would' be story.

[NTHER91]

I realized Unions were a joke when I was 15. I started work at Kroger as a Bag boy. Being 15 and not working much what the fuck was the union going to do for me as a fucking bag boy MAKING MINIMUM WAGE? If the union was not there for me I would still make minimum wage..... No choice but to join the union or quit. When I saw what other bag boys were coming home with on their check after the Union raped them for nothing on top of all the other deductions, I said fuck off, clocked out and never came back. Hell my Check that I had to pay the Union from if I wanted to stay was my entire check. WTF.

 

Alas I am "Naive".....

 

 

no your just like every other yuppie, all you want to do is bitch about the situation not fix it

[yellowsnake]

I don't know that they asked them to take a 50% pay cut. My understanding is the average total overhead cost, including benefits, etc...was around $73hr. vs the imports at like $48hr. That equates to the manufacturers needing to get the overall costs down roughly 34% lower than what they are now. 35% is a lot of extras that the union is causing them vs what the imports are having to deal with. I agree with congress, no sense in negotiations or providing help unless they can achieve that and be viable. Anything else is throwing good money after a lost cause. Again, ditch the union altogether.

 

 

soo, since the union is soo bad, and is the only reason the big 3 are not doing good. why did honda just cut all there workers back to 3 days a week??? and that 3, 8 hr days. sounds like all of them are in trouble. the difference is that the uaw make 73$/hr and have great beneifits and can retire while honda make 48/hr and not near the benefits of the union. and who do you think is getting the other 25$/hr........ the owner.

 

In my experience, and I've been on both sides, the union helps me make more money and not have to kill myself to just get by. when you have 2 bids come in on a job and the union and non-union are with 1000$ on a 1,000,000$ bid, who do you think is getting rich here??????

[OSUGT]

GM employs approx 96k workers. Their legacy benefit obligation approaches 1 million people. Do the math. Cuts will be made to benefits and salary.

 

 

GM is no longer an auto maker, they are a retirement home.

[SPLN SUX]

I bet GM is kicking themselves in the ass for ditching the EV1 back when they kept it simple, rather than dumping millions into the Volt.

[Patrick]

Unions were good when big business was on the rise. Now, I don't think they're so relevant.

 

Christian and Ben, I agree. UFCW didn't lift a finger when I was being made to work ridiculous hours when I was a senior in HS; read: sometimes 2-3 am, school nights. Maybe it was the laws, but seriously?

 

Lazy people for sure. They pretty much had to commit murder to get fired, except I bet they could file a grievance and keep their job. So many employees stole food for break.

[TTQ B4U]

soo, since the union is soo bad, and is the only reason the big 3 are not doing good. why did honda just cut all there workers back to 3 days a week??? and that 3, 8 hr days. sounds like all of them are in trouble. the difference is that the uaw make 73$/hr and have great beneifits and can retire while honda make 48/hr and not near the benefits of the union. and who do you think is getting the other 25$/hr........ the owner.

 

The main reason the big three are doing good is baggage, bad decisions and both related to the unions for as long as they've been allowed to suck the life out of them.

 

Honda and Toyota have both had rough years, but in todays market that's expected. GM and the Chrysler have sucked ass for quite a bit longer and for reasons beyond just the economy.

 

Buy hey, if unions are happy that they are getting UAW workers the equiv. of $73hr for basically grunt work, I say welcome to America, where you can be paid to play checkers, recieve a check even after being laid off and make more than you should at the expense of the company that employs you. We'll see how much they and all the other GM folks like it all once they are out of a job.

 

I say let's drive down to the Dayton plant today and wish them all well and see if they would have done anything differently. Merry Christmas folks, today is your last day.

 

In my experience, and I've been on both sides, the union helps me make more money and not have to kill myself to just get by. when you have 2 bids come in on a job and the union and non-union are with 1000$ on a 1,000,000$ bid, who do you think is getting rich here??????

 

and I've been at large trade shows where they pay lazy union workers who throw fits if I simply plug in my equipment to the power supply at my booth. oh no, you have to call over two overly paid union guys who if you saw them, can't imaging are even allowed in the building, let alone employed, come over and plug in my power cords. I'll have to dig up some old photos as I actually took some shots of it one year because it was so ridiculous.

 

who's getting rich? it's more like who's paying the price.

[Mowgli1647545497]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-11/1327738/unions.jpg

[Supplicium]

Anyone who lives in Ohio and is against the bailout is a moron.

 

Automotive factories and suppliers are a large part of the economies of the Midwest, especially Ohio. Not so much in Columbus, but Toledo , Cleveland, Lordstown, etc etc

 

You are a tard. There is not one profitable government agency ever yet they are bailing out the financial and auto sectors. I am a believer in consequences. If you failed as a business for whatever reason, regardless of size or market when you fail that should mean you fail. A better company will start up to take its place and hopefully last.

 

Nothing will change if you keep bailing out businesses. You have to cut costs and be efficient in these times and do whatever it takes to survive, and in my opinion getting bailed out is not surviving.

[SpaceGhost]

Yep as of now say goodbye to "Free Market". Where was "Tuckers" bailout?

[Mr. Jones]

the union helps me make more money and not have to kill myself to just get by.

 

 

Thanks for that helpful insight. That is exactely what I expected to hear from a union worker.

 

"I do less, and make more, YAY ME"

[yellowsnake]

Thanks for that helpful insight. That is exactely what I expected to hear from a union worker.

 

"I do less, and make more, YAY ME"

 

 

I will tell you right now that i WILL out work you in any way shape or form and that i will put lots of my overpaid paychecks on for you. no doubt in my mine i will. i'm not affraid to work by no means, but killing myself b/c the company dont wana hire more people b/c it will cut into there profits, is what i am talking about. I have paystubs from my non-union company of having 105 hr weeks all b/c of this. I would average 500+ hrs of O.T. a year b/c the owner of the company (who has 300+ guys working in the field) would say, its cheaper to pay you overtime then to hire more guys b/c we would hasve to pay another guys insurance and such. Now i get paid what i am worth, with benefits, and still be alive when i am 50.

 

look around in the non-union world and compare people. see how many are still alive at 60. I have seen first hand people having to work up to the day they die b/c the company wont invest some of the profit that the worker has made them to help him retire..

[OSUGT]

I will tell you right now that i WILL out work you in any way shape or form and that i will put lots of my overpaid paychecks on for you. no doubt in my mine i will. i'm not affraid to work by no means, but killing myself b/c the company dont wana hire more people b/c it will cut into there profits, is what i am talking about. I have paystubs from my non-union company of having 105 hr weeks all b/c of this. I would average 500+ hrs of O.T. a year b/c the owner of the company (who has 300+ guys working in the field) would say, its cheaper to pay you overtime then to hire more guys b/c we would hasve to pay another guys insurance and such. Now i get paid what i am worth, with benefits, and still be alive when i am 50.

 

look around in the non-union world and compare people. see how many are still alive at 60. I have seen first hand people having to work up to the day they die b/c the company wont invest some of the profit that the worker has made them to help him retire..

 

 

I understand where you are coming from. Here is where I have a problem. When someone starts a business, how is it their responsibility to help YOU retire? In case you havent figured it out yet, social security is a joke so it's up to you to plan your retirement.

 

If you don't want to work as many hours, find a job that fits the bill. Maybe develop another skill set and get paid more for less manual labor?

 

The sooner everyone figures out that we dont have a "right" to the jobs we have, the better off we will all be. You work because your employer finds value in the job you do. If there is no value, then there is no work...period.

[yellowsnake]

I understand where you are coming from. Here is where I have a problem. When someone starts a business, how is it their responsibility to help YOU retire? In case you havent figured it out yet, social security is a joke so it's up to you to plan your retirement.

 

If you don't want to work as many hours, find a job that fits the bill. Maybe develop another skill set and get paid more for less manual labor?

 

The sooner everyone figures out that we dont have a "right" to the jobs we have, the better off we will all be. You work because your employer finds value in the job you do. If there is no value, then there is no work...period.

 

hince why i left my old job and got another....no more 100 hr weeks for me and i will retire....