noob + liter bike = ass over teakettle

[TimTheAzn]

If a guy shows up to a group ride without a jacket.... that should be the first red flag....

With that said, I only own a jacket, gloves, and a helmet (Gear isn't cheap) but hopefully I'll be adding boots to that list before this big OR group ride happens.

[serpentracer]

Bullshit,, You put them in the front, tell them where to stop or turn and wait. then you give them a head start and wait for them to get some ground in front of you.. Then they will ride at their own pace without feeling pressure from someone behind them. A rider is going to push it much harder following then what they will going on their own.

I wouldn't say "bullshit". because when I was a new rider i didn't like being anywhere close to the front. I wanted somewhere in back so I didn't hold up the other guys that could ride faster than me. and I felt pressured to go faster than I wanted to.

now, everyone makes me lead. if I'm not leading I'm usually no more than 4 bikes from the front.

the one thing I can't stand on group rides, are the guy's that dont know their place in the pack. the guy that is obviously lacking good skills and slows down way too much for corners and all over the road, running wide, crossing the double in lefts etc, always insists on jumping out front when we leave from a rest stop.

Edited September 12, 2012 by serpentracer

[RHill]

If a guy shows up to a group ride without a jacket.... that should be the first red flag....

With that said, I only own a jacket, gloves, and a helmet (Gear isn't cheap) but hopefully I'll be adding boots to that list before this big OR group ride happens.

Every ride I've been on this year has been in jeans. Jacket, helmet, boots, gloves and jeans. Nivin thought they were the kevlar reinforced jeans, and when I told him they were just normal jeans he looked at me like

If I had a pair of the riding pants, I'd wear them. I don't and the 1 piece suit IMO is overkill for a comfortable all day ride, so jeans it will most likely be.

[RHill]

New riders are doomed either way if they cant detemine their own pace. In front there is a pressure that "these guys behind me want to go faster, MUST GO FASTER". They have to know their pace and battle that pressure. If they are in the middle/rear, they will have the pressure to keep up and stay right on the tail of the group.

If the roads are unknown to them, a more experienced rider should lead IMO. And no matter what, it should be made clear that they should ride their own pace. They should know that any time the group is turning from a route/road, we will hold at the intersection and group up....but separating on the route because of differences in pace is not only acceptable, it is more safe than struggling and riding above their comfort level.

[twowheelsnake]

I had the literbike argument with a couple guys at work. Neither of them had ever ridden a motorcycle yet thought it would be a good idea to rush out and get the Repsol CBR. I told them they were nuts and didn't realize what they were getting into. I ended the argument very creatively. See, they were both avid quad riders. I went quad "window shopping" with them and came across the 700 raptor. They said "you might want to get something smaller first". To which I replied "this coming from the two clowns that think a 1000cc supersport is a perfectly good starter bike. So you guys get my point?". Their response was "yep".

[ReconRat]

Accidents:

There's lots of valid technical stuff on how motor vehicle accidents happen:

Basic, is that 95% are driver/rider error, often combined with the other 5% of equipment failure, roadway design and poor roadway maintenance.

The top equipment failures are brakes, tires and steering/suspension.

The top roadway design hazards are visibility, road surfaces, traffic control devices, behavior control devices (speed bumps etc), traffic flow, roadway identification signs and weather.

the top roadway poor maintenance items are debris, potholes, construction, and poor sanding/salting in Winter.

Of the driver/rider errors, the top ten are:

10. Bad roads. Speed too high and control too low for conditions.

9. Bad weather. Speed too high and control too low for conditions.

8. Speeding/reckless driving. Over posted limit and aggressive behavior.

7. In-car distractions. (Or on-bike distractions.)

6. Drug use.

5. Drunken driving.

4. Rubber-necking. Eyeballing something and not watching the road.

3. Eating in the car. (Got nothing for this one on a bike...)

2. Changing CD/radio.

1. Cell phone / mobile use. (Include texting, computer, GPS, etc)

So our noob will have to fit in a category of basically going too fast or distracted. Aggravated by lack of experience with the bike, his gear, the road he was on, and the group he was with.

imho, he out-road his speed, and was simply not watching far enough ahead for his velocity. That, and he obtained his velocity more quickly than he expected. (Obvious is obvious.) Stopping distance is not linear, it's logarithmic. Doubling speed will more than double stopping distance. It's a minimum of a 4 to 1 ratio.

Motorcycle stopping distances:

10mph = 4 feet

20mph = 15 feet

30mph = 33 feet

40mph = 59 feet

50mph = 93 feet

60mph = 134 feet

70mph = 182 feet

80mph = 238 feet

90mph = 300 feet

So if you're doing 90 and can stop in 300 feet, and chop your velocity in half, you'll cut the stopping distance to 25% of what it was. At 45 it would be around 75 feet. If he was at 90mph and looking 60 mph ahead... he'd impact at around 30 mph. Or roughly a 30 foot error in stopping.

Only two things really prevent this: more experience or a slower/smaller bike. Experienced riders also know that braking early and hard when things go wrong or weird is quite normal.

Edited September 13, 2012 by ReconRat

[turnone]

Great video. Human bodies can withstand some punishment, sometimes. Flipping end over end in the air probably saved him. When he hit the ground the energy was spread out over a little bit longer period of time. If he would have went up and then down and hit all at once, it might have been too much.

I am amazed at how so many people don't think size and power has anything to do with it. I completely disagree. Super fast bikes get you in trouble quicker. Catching up on a 250 means 95 mph not 145 mph in the same distance. When it comes to my kids, they all started riding on the street on a 50cc 2 stroke, then a 125cc 2 stroke or 250cc 4 stroke. I believe in getting the mistakes out of the way at less insane speeds. Small bikes allow you more time to react.

Can a responsible person start on a literbike, sure. But this isn't the best way to learn, IMO.

[Moto-Brian]

A rider could have done the same stunt with a 250 but likely would not have.

Coming out of a corner the rider probably hit the gas seeing a straight away and a big gap. The liter bike rapidly picks up speed and in seconds is going much quicker than the rider realizes. The 250 accelerates much slower and requires several shifts. Unless there was a very long straight the 250 would not get much above 60 while the liter is already over 100. Then the rider realizes the group is slowing. Both bike slow about the same with an inexperienced rider but 100-0 takes over twice as much space as 60-0. Hence the accident is much more likely on a liter bike with an inexperienced rider.

However you are correct there is not much difference between a 600cc and a Busa as far as this kind of thing goes. But there is a big difference on a 250 or even a 650.

Craig

First of all, the 250 reference isn't far off. ANY rider with NEWBIE status can make a fuck up that can end in a pine box. Sure, you can add science and forumlas all day until your pocket protector wears out. But the harsh reality is that today's sportbikes can get anyone in trouble if not well educated and experienced. Period.

Want proof? Come to the track. I've seen guys on small CC bikes ball shit up as quickly as big bores. Sure, speed is a factor, closing at a higher rate in a shorter distance, etc.

So, to make it clear, you can get into the same situation on any bike. He may not have flown through the air as far or exploded his bike as much, but the same scenario could have easily played the same with a Ninja 250, an R6 or a ZX10...

[donkason]

But I think we all agree none of this would have happened on a Harley....

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

[Moto-Brian]

Liter bike + dumbass is to blame. Not everyone who gets on a bike is level headed enough to stay within their telnet of abilities. A liter bike makes it easy to out ride your abilities.

So, had he had a middleweight 600 and been a dumbass, he'd been fine? Seriously?

I love all the talk that the liter bike is half the problem. Liter bikes do things faster and sure, can get you in trouble quicker. But, 600s are just as dangerous.

I suppose you are a master of that ZX10, right?

I'd like to think I might have at least an average amount of ability. I've crashed enough bikes to know that no matter what your ability level is, you can still wad shit up into a pop can easy enough. Big bike or small.

I think the amount of ability allows a person a reserve enough to hopefully have room to work when shit hits the fan. But, no matter what the reserve, there are times the most experienced riders have nothing left and eat it. Happens to us all.

And, if there is anyone that can sit here and tell me that they can master their liter bike or even 600, I am willing to bet I can test that and show it isn't the case.

[swingset]

If a guy shows up to a group ride without a jacket.... that should be the first red flag....

With that said, I only own a jacket, gloves, and a helmet (Gear isn't cheap) but hopefully I'll be adding boots to that list before this big OR group ride happens.

And if your group is named something that sounds like gay porn, that's a giant red (or pink) flag too.

BTW, don't forget pants. You can get rash bad enough on your legs to kill you from the blood loss, infection, etc. And, it fucking hurts even if it doesn't kill you.

[NinjaNick]

I must say this has been the most civil debate on this subject I have ever seen. I was a member of other forums where people would flame and spaz on this subject.

OR RULES!

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Don't count O.R out just yet.

[buildit]

I give him a 8.3 on the ultra-quad flip with rotation but deducted 2 for not sticking that landing like a bug on a windshield.

[Ricochet]

Video is gone

[ChiefScooter]

Removed due to their policy of "shocking or disgusting content"? Seems dumb. There's no blood or gore, no cursing, nothing disgusting. Just a guy flying through the air, which you can see on Jackass or Ridiculousness and such shows on public television... I wonder who flagged it. Lame.

[ReconRat]

Shoot... I should have copied that video. Dang...

Working on it...

edit: hrmm, video didn't cache... darn

testing alt source:

fixed it, sort of. Another copy.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/kawasaki-zx10-hits-a-trailer-dead-on_2396540.htm

Edited September 13, 2012 by ReconRat

[ChiefScooter]

I think you see "worse" shocking content from video game videos and movie clips on YouTube than that video showed... I stand by my above post comment: Lame.

[ReconRat]

I found the long version of the video:

edit: and now have 8 copies of both in a variety of formats....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCUVNX_83U8

Edited September 13, 2012 by ReconRat

[max power]

Rough Riders that explains alot.

Buncha gearless squids. At least their cute little outfits matched.

[donkason]

Rough Riders that explains alot.

Buncha gearless squids. At least their cute little outfits matched.

Exactly. First off it's a dumb name. I've always been taught to ride smooth as ice

Secondly, what did squidworth do to earn a name like Ruff Rider? Shouldn't you know how to wheelie, burnout, and not slam into trailers before getting all bad ass with your title.

We should start a track day gang called Smooth Riders and post videos of us not being morons. Of course we would need video vixens working the flags and a massive PA with a DJ at the track.

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[flounder]

So which clown was it.. Did he get up and walk away?

[ReconRat]

So which clown was it.. Did he get up and walk away?

The orange bike (ZX-10) that shattered. Rider broke leg and arm.

Nope, did not get up and walk away.

That's him way down the road. He didn't get up.

Camera bike just got knocked around and over on it's side with some damage.

[NinjaNick]

You can thank DMX for them.

"Stop! Drop! Shut'em down, open up shop! Oh.........no.........that's how Rough Riders roll!"

Never knew what that meant, but loved that song back when I was 16 I think in 1994? I started driving then and I remember playing it in my car.

Group of douches though they represent.

[ReconRat]

It's Ruff Ryders! lol, not rough riders...

Chapters all over the country. Got one in Columbus.

StarBoyz got nuthin on these guys...

And this is how they roll

South Carolina (inland)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnXixdK1Je4&feature=related

Pittsburgh PA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeFUKAfgbPg&feature=related

Dallas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khC2GbkUDBM

and Ruff Ryders Los Angeles FTMFW

annual parade 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZhQsMUDerI&feature=related

Edited September 13, 2012 by ReconRat

[serpentracer]

^that's what they call riding? fucking posers if I ever seen any.