smccrory

I wonder how the gun-related and non-gun-related stats break out.

Agreed, get new gear, surrender the old. It did its job, time to retire. With any luck it may even serve science in its afterlife.

I agree but I'm not talking about nervousness and a weapon not being touched - that was your word and from which you drew a conclusion of non-logic/reasoning. Or friendly. Or boisterous. Or sleepy. Or sad. Or overwhelmed. Or anything else non-threatening. Surely you're not assuming that just because someone openly carries that they're good-to-go, right? Because if so, you've just numbed off environmental cues that every personal protection instructor tells you to listen to. This is gonna sound like juvenile profiling but I'm in a hurry to get out the door for a ride... Are they continually scanning the place? Did they only order water or coffee? Are they making aggressive eye contact with you or other citizens? Are they unusually somber or wearing a 1000-yard stare? None of these would concern me in isolation but together I guarantee they'd raise your spidey sense too, and I'd carefully watch their hand movements until I got a better read. Maybe they're just a paranoid gun nut openly carrying for the first time ever, or maybe they're building up to something newsworthy. Are you willing to bet your life on the former? Anyway, we're getting off topic.

Thanks Cooter, that's a level-headed reply and your mention of dobies and rotties resonates with me - I love big dogs, having owned a rescued shep-rott myself. And thanks Pokey and Tigerpaw - you definitely understand what I'm trying to convey. I spent untold hours calming people who saw my pup as a big, powerful black dog with unpredictable intentions, where she really just wanted to lick hands. This is especially true with little kids because she has this built-in protection instinct from being my daughter's companion - once a kid hugs her, they're her protectorate for life. Your analogy is especially good in that way - she was an unusual image for most people, and if they were smart, the first thing they'd do is look at my eyes and body language to judge the combined package. If they weren't, they'd show fear and make me and my dog wonder what they themselves were up to. So, your analogy goes even further, because I would go out of my way whenever I "open carried" her to be friendly, calm and nerdly positive so that my dog, their dog and they would (almost always) follow suit and it would be a great exchange for everyone. In fact, I take a certain pride that Tootsie (yes, that was her name) could be depended upon to calm a Bark Park situation down, especially if it meant defending timid dogs from under-socialized aggressors. It took several years to bring that out of her, but wow, once she found her job... Anyway... Now, if we return the analogy back to open carry of firearms, we gun owners have an opportunity to not come off as self-entitled power pricks who don't care enough about how we appear on a bike with a gun. There are plenty of pricks like that with "gladiator dogs" and they give the rest of us a terrible time with anti-pit/anti-rott/anti-dobie ordinances. We can instead show that we hold ourselves to higher standards of calm, openness, detail, leadership (and if necessary, response) with regards to gun stewardship. That's all I'm talking about. Sure, at times that could mean open carry with a positive attitude and willingness to answer questions, be nice to the cops, be willing to spend an extra hour while your ID/plates/CHL are run through the computer while we prove that open carry is constitutional and by gawd, we must exercise that right to keep it...! But many other times, I'd strongly argue it means keeping one's piece concealed so that citizens still wrapping their heads around gun rights vs. control in a violent world don't have negative personal experiences to anchor upon. I'm not sure everyone wants cops to hang out in their cul-de-sac or favorite breakfast spot while they confirm an exposed carrier. "Yea it was a pleasant breakfast up until the point where some gun rights political dood packing a pistol attracted the cops, then everyone was on edge and the service went to hell." Conn-e-rot redefined my hypothetical soccer mom example as already being anti-gun, but that wasn't the scenario at all. Contrary to NRA chest-puffing, not everyone is fer us, or agin us! A lot of my friends and coworkers are uneasy with private carry but they won't quite say they're against it because they see the potential value of having citizen shepherds around. At the same time, they do believe they have an equal right to travel down the street with kids in tow without seeing personal firearms exposed. It's an unspoken social contract. A functional detente. Yes, it's more urban/suburban than rural, but that's a political reality. In the end, I wouldn't call the cops on anyone open carrying and I'd certainly discourage others from doing the same. That is, until their body language appears off, and I'll be the first to either calmly leave and ring up the po-po for a spot-check, or ready a more immediate response of my own if things quickly degrade. Wouldn't you do the same? Shouldn't you do the same? And wouldn't it just be so much better for us all to keep from raising everyone's neck hairs by leaving our guns concealed in places where it's uncommon for them to be out in the open? I mean damn, I rather prefer calm breakfasts. And I rather prefer being able to tell my moderate friends that we're not all out to press political agendas by wearing guns in the open wherever we go.

Damn, I posted my end comment while reading about a friend's cousin's death this weekend and mixed the two. This has been a horrible season start.

Sorry about that... and Nothing short of awful. Damn, I can't imagine leaving my kiddo and family behind that way. I wonder if he entered the turn on a wet surface too fast, lost control and went over. Ugh.

I'm in, and let my riding coworkers know about it as well. Please don't rain.

Cooter, I grew up in WV with family in rural Ohio, so I'm quite familiar (and comfortable) with country norms. Don't make this personal.

Not gonna happen, and here we have it - the "get out of my club if you don't like it the way I do" platitude that comes when someone's unwilling to reflect. How about YOU do us all a favor and consider that open carry on a bike in metropolitan Columbus, while perfectly legal, can have at least as many negative consequences as not exercising a right. But you won't. That would be outside the NRA script, wouldn't it.

http://nighthawk-forums.com/index.php?topic=19393

You're grossly misinterpreting and completely missing the point. Going fast and commuting violent crime are very different degrees of potential outcomes, which is why the police are likely to respond to one and not the other.

A family member of the rider posted about this in a Nighthawk forum I'm on. Tragic.

Baggyp that's pretty much where I am.

Dude, they don't know someone isn't breaking the law until they check them. Think about the scenarios of what could unfold if they DON'T respond, and the carrier does something illegal.

Agreed, thanks IP, that's exactly what I meant, but I guess the NRA circle-jerk frenzy you predicted, and now playing out, needed my point to be spelled out better. My bad... "Ermagerd, ees thertening meh rahts! Ahnd tahken uer jabs! Kohld ded hahnds!" Since I gotta spell it out, here goes. It's not about having the legal right to carry open, or even concealed with a license. It's about being modest, thoughtful and respectful enough to not shove it in people's faces, when the outcome could result in local, city, state and federal ordinances that curtail those rights. All he had to do is better plan for his ride with a tucked shirt or better gun placement. I hope he manages his gun and bike better than that. As motorcyclists we've got enough stereotypes to deal with after The Wild One, The Wild Angels, Sons of Anarchy, Fast and Furious and a bunch of other trashy "biker-ploitation" flicks that give society an exaggerated view of us as danger-hungry violence-prone outlaws. Imagine this - A suburban soccer mom (whose vote counts the same as yours, remember) carrying kiddos around on a Saturday, with hardly any prior contact with firearms, sees a "biker" with a gun. She might 1) call the cops and report his plate and divert them from more important duties, 2) tell her friends (who also vote) about the crime she surely stopped, 3) lay down the law with her partner that their kids shall not participate in camp shooting sports because that's how these things get started, and 4) vote for gun control at every future opportunity when she might otherwise have been ambivalent in the past. Ill-informed? Sure. But to her, she's protecting her children from a perceived threat and just being a good mom and citizen. Imagine another person recently separated from a friend or family member and worried about domestic violence, and what their default mindframe would be seeing an exposed gun on the back of a motorcyclist. Again, this has nothing to do with ur gahd-given rahts, it's about not inviting societal responses that will curtail those rights if given enough justification. Look, I'm a motorcyclist, a CHL holder, gun enthusiast (for more years than some of you have been alive) and NRA member myself, but I believe we should be more respectful (and grateful) for the delicate detente we have with society. Some of you see this detente as a result of us poking the bear in the eyes and proving our rights, but there's also a critically important layer of trust at play. Currently, we are not seen as enough of a threat to society to warrant additional gun control. But don't take that for granted. There are plenty of people who, upon seeing more guns exposed in the open, will take that as a call to respond. We can be all cocky and crow about our constitutional rights on soapboxes, and unashamedly carry ugly guns for all to see and be willing to argue our rights to anyone who has the guts to call us out, but in the end, what have we accomplished to those on the fence? We come off as arrogant, insensitive and un-attentive to concealment details, mouthpieces for an industrial lobby, and one-sided about demanding respect for our rights while pushing aside others who don't want themselves or their kids to see guns out in the open. If you don't get what I'm saying at this point, there's little hope I'd be able to get it through to you. But, at least I've speelled it out. Happy carrying and riding, but please, mind how our behaviors shape the overall debate.

To whoever was riding a sport bike on 71 south to 161 at 11 am this (Saturday) morning, you might want to better conceal your pistol. Yes you, in your light T shirt riding up your back exposing the IWB-tucked medium frame semi. I didn't mind but anyone else seeing it might dial 911 and report your license plate to verify a license and make sure you aren't up to no good. C'mon folks, don't ruin it for the rest of us. Wrap that rascal.

I wish the NTSB would collect details like they do for aircraft accidents...

I did a quick Google search and didn't find anything new about it, so who knows. Alas last weekend I bought a membership to NASR because it's the closest to my home (and I can easily ride there too).

Has anyone else been to the Dillon state range in Newark? I've been there a dozen times over the last few years and love it. The park page is at http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/dillon/tabid/730/Default.aspx but maybe someone has a more direct link. It's not free, but it's dirt cheap and has something for everyone, i.e. pistol, 100' rifle, skeet, etc.

Done, thanks for posting!

Man that's awful but really glad it was just the bike and gear. Damn...

Well, it was my turn last weekend I left in the morning for the MSF Advanced Rider Course on my '85 Honda Nighthawk CB700SC with full gear except for just jeans because I didn't want to boil in the day's heat. In retrospect I wish I would have brought my armored, ballistic nylon riding pants and just shed them during the day as needed - they would have helped to absorb some of the impact... It was misting rain, but I had ridden several times in full-on rain on my V-Star without issues. I stopped by a McDonalds to drink a coffee and then headed out. Getting onto the highway, I slowed down to below normal entry speed using both front and rear brakes, but the rear tire locked up on oil and silt, and the rear slid our from under me in the turn, fell down on my right leg, slid off and spun around to face me. I had two cars behind me, which thankfully stopped, got out and helped me get the bike back up. I dusted myself off and assessed the damage. Remarkably, the bike just had some road scrapes on the right muffler and pressed the rear bake in towards the clutch plates. Everything was still operable, mirrors still OK, the whole bit. I felt OK except for a sore knee. I pulled up my jeans and had a raspberry on my knee (I'd call it bad jeans rash) and I could tell that I had been bruised as well, but I could move everything, put full pressure on my leg, etc. so I got back onto the road and completed a long day at the ARC. Coincidentally I found that it was really really easy to lock up my rear tire in the speed braking drills, and I'm positive that had something to do with my crash. Alas, it wasn't until this week did I realize how badly I had bruised my knee. 7 days later, it's healing, but it's ugly and pretty sore and I bet it'll be a few weeks before it's back to normal. And that was from just a 10-15 mph fall! Actually my whole back and hip areas are sore from overexertion after an indoor winter, but that's separate insult to injury. Primary factors of the crash? Old hard tires that had performed flawlessly on dry roads, and positive experiences in heavy rain on another bike which lead to overconfidence in the Honda. I was going to replace those tires, but I delayed my timing due to other financial surprises. I would have been a little better off in riding pants too - it's possible that the knee armor may have reduce the impact of the valve cover against my knee (I still shudder thinking about it). So, I'll be OK, and I'll certainly ride again, but not until my knee is feeling better and I've replaced those tires.

Columbus Dog Connection = highly recommended. I grew to really appreciate the group after we adopted a shep-rott mix for my daughter. http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/

Ditto on leaving it as-is. Or do you think you can out-think a cadre of Japanese engineers?

The rider looks drunk or stoned.