My track bike conundrum.

[Tonik]

So, I am hooked and it is decision time. Rider coach took me aside yesterday and said 'Don't push that bike any more, you are pushing the suspension as far as you can. The rear is working too hard, I can see it when I follow you' This was after he watched me slide it sideways through 8. I rolled on too soon and too hard. Now, as I get better and smoother I might be able to squeeze a bit more out of it but he is right, few more track days and I will be going as quick as I can on this bike.

I should also add, my street riding of a sport/sporty bike is going to be very limited. Even the FZ6 is killing my body, specifically my neck from having it angled up like you have to. I injured it pretty good when I was young, arthritis is setting in. I have no problems at the track with it, 20 minutes on and 40 off more or less and it can handle that, zero pain.  But a whole day on the street is killing me. So as we ponder this, street riding is of little to no concern.

Option 1.  Convert the FZ6. Rear set. clip ons, really good rear shock is available and decent front forks for about a grand. So I would have 3800 total in the bike and upgrades. (Not counting trailer, lap timer, gopro, gps, tire warmers, generator and an umbrella babe as those costs will come with any bike).

I figure in the spring I can flip the FZ6 for 3K.

Option 2.  Flip the FZ6 and grab a 600 SS in the 4K range.

Option 3. Flip the FZ6 and grab a liter bike in the 4k range.

Lets debate the three options as they are, then we can start a 'which best bike for option 2 or 3' later. I am pretty sure what I am going to do, but am curious what the masses here think.

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Tonik

[NinjaDoc]

Sell them all and buy the venture and post exciting long trips and iron buts and other similar rides which I hope I can start doing by next year. Forget this track non sense  

and to answer the question, 600cc I think 2008+ R6 next year. 

 

Have u tried riding the fz with no wind screen at all just to see how it feels, solid upright with clean air uptop? 

Edited September 6, 2017 by NinjaDoc

[motocat12]

Tonik's rear doesn't know the meaning of "working too hard"

going in sideways on the other hand.

A 4k  bike may be ready for suspension work.

 

So you bought tire too good for the shocks?

 

 

[NinjaDoc]

1 minute ago, motocat12 said:

Tonik's rear doesn't know the meaning of "working too hard"

U prolly missed his open invite advert thread 

[Tonik]

3 minutes ago, Isaac's Papa said:

I call dibs on the FZ if you decide to let it go.

 

 

Noted. Although you won't ride with me anymore, that still hurts.

 

2 minutes ago, motocat12 said:

So you bought tire too good for the shocks?

Never looked at it that way, that is an excellent observation.

[Tonik]

7 minutes ago, NinjaDoc said:

Have u tried riding the fz with no wind screen at all just to see how it feels, solid upright with clean air uptop? 

Well, with the stock one which is like nothing. It sucked hard, well it blew hard..right square on my neck so hard I could breath. And that was only at street speeds, can't imagine it at 135.

[Tonik]

Just now, Isaac's Papa said:

Are you leaving the sport bike street scene, Jim? 

No, I intend to keep the White Whale...or replace it with a the new Venture which I am sure I can make go just as fast.

[blue03636]

The fz is very capable and I don't trust your coach. That being said don't even consider a 1k, you will slow your progression. 

[Tonik]

Just now, Isaac's Papa said:

I may not be able to keep your pace and that's terrifyingly amusing. 

I will bust out the FZ6 for that ride, would be funny as hell to add you to my signature.

[Tonik]

Just now, Isaac's Papa said:

I figured you'd keep the great white polar bear, but was unclear if the sport bike thing was played out for you on the street. 

I figured you figured that. Yea, it's played out, my neck and shoulders won't take even the semi upright position of the FZ6. But for your maiden 536 run I will gladly make an exception. I am open this weekend.

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Tonik

[what]

Jim, being perfectly honest your coach wasn't giving you the full story. You need to lean off the bike a lot more to see better lap times. Body position is SO important on the track and you're still (from what I saw) in straight up and down mode. That said, having your suspension set up properly will make a huge difference in how the bike feels and in turn how comfortable and planted you feel on the bike. I don't doubt the FZ has more to give but if you're wanting to transition completely into track riding with maybe 1 or 2 days per year of SEO twisties, a 600 is the way to go. The difference in achievable top speed at the track between a 600 and a 1000 is only a few MPH on one, maybe two straights. Case in point, 600's give me a run for my money on the CBR all the way down to the kink on the back straight, and even then when I pass it's mostly about braking later than them. At our level, it all comes down to rider ability. I can 100% guarantee you that if we put a Moto(pick one) guy on your FZ6 and sent them out in I or A group on a normal day they would blow everybody's doors off except maybe the top 1%. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by what

[NinjaDoc]

42 minutes ago, Isaac's Papa said:

It's getting there. Installed the Fatduc and replaced all of the shitty hose clamps. Damn thing was leaking coolant out of every hose but two. I'll have it ready for the weekend and subsequent weekends until the season ends. I'll get on a ride with you. I'm curious to follow you up 536 on the new bike. I may not be able to keep your pace and that's terrifyingly amusing. 

Hope u guys put a ride together this Saturday, coz striple is back together as well   need to get more miles to gain some confidence back. I am almost at the verge of quitting like I usually end up doing right before winter blue hits. Which I usually regret later. A ride with the clique is just what I need to keep the passion clicking. 

[jbot]

1. smooth on throttle and brakes (this should address your spinning up the rear issue and "overworking" the rear suspension)

2. smooth on counter steering for corner entry. (this should address the "overworking" the suspension issue.)

3. get someone to take footage of your body position.  if it's too hard to actually properly get into position, then do what you can as long as you can still properly smoothly work the controls. (this should help with the excessive lean angle issue)

4. once you get the first 3 up to a certain point, refresh front forks (unless already done) and refresh rear shock.  set sag after.

5. if you think I am full of shit, and you really are riding the bike as fast as it can go, ask your next coach to ride your bike, and you follow on his (or someone else who's willing to let you ride their race prepped bike).  After you get left for dead within half a lap or likely less, pull back into pits with a fresh point of view.  Welcome to the track, where everyone seems to be faster than you, and there is so much to learn!  The comradery and improving is truly the best part, I hope you love it as much as I did.

[Tonik]

 

So, now that the learned mass have spoken (much appreciated btw) I will toss out my thoughts.

Liter bike is too much, I will overuse the power and make the learning curve worse. A pure 600 sport is the best answer but I already have the FZ6 and it's in great shape and a great bike. There is no reason why it can't perform pretty well on the track. Perfect, no, but it is a great platform.

Plus I have it, a few clicks on the interwebs and stuff will start showing up at the door.

So I'm leaning (pun intended) towards adding a rear set, forks and rear shock to it. Rear set is mandatory the pegs are just too low on that bike to the point that if my feet are not in exactly the right place I drag a boot before I drag a peg. Fork work and rear shock won't cost much so why not.

And as several people mentioned my lack of smoothness is a big issue here, there is no doubt when I slid it I got on too hard too soon. And yea body position is still rough, it got better after lunch but still has a long way to go. Not being smooth and improper body position isn't going to be fixed by a new bike.

I am turning low 2 minute laps after two trips to the track with damn near zero experience on a sport bike. I am quite ok with that.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Tonik

[JustinNck1]

So since you're saving money by upgrading the FZ6 instead of getting an entire new bike, are you going with a box trailer, or full on sprinter van setup? 

[NinjaDoc]

 

[Tonik]

7 minutes ago, JustinNck1 said:

So since you're saving money by upgrading the FZ6 instead of getting an entire new bike, are you going with a box trailer, or full on sprinter van setup? 

Depends if I sell the current house and get a big pole barn at the new house or just add an over-sized shed to the current house. So the choices would be full on toy hauler or a fold away harbor freight trailer.

[blue03636]

54 minutes ago, Tonik said:

So I'm leaning (pun intended) towards adding a rear set, forks and rear shock to it. Rear set is mandatory the pegs are just too low on that bike to the point that if my feet are not in exactly the right place I drag a boot before I drag a peg. Fork work and rear shock won't cost much so why not.

And as several people mentioned my lack of smoothness is a big issue here, there is no doubt when I slid it I got on too hard too soon. And yea body position is still rough, it got better after lunch but still has a long way to go. Not being smooth and improper body position isn't going to be fixed by a new bike.

I am turning low 2 minute laps after two trips to the track with damn near zero experience on a sport bike. I am quite ok with that.

Don't take this the wrong way but at that pace you really shouldn't be dragging even on the fz. This comes down to body position and throttle. A bike on the gas will rise and give more clearance, I'm not talking full gas but you need to be rolling on the gas to give you the clearance. Rearsets aren't a bad investment at all, it will help but keep the other in mind. As for suspension if you just want to make sure it's sprung for your weight and setup but I will never tell anyone not to buy aftermarket suspension, it's worth every penny.

[Tonik]

2 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

Don't take this the wrong way but at that pace you really shouldn't be dragging even on the fz. 

You can tell me anything you want about this subject and it will be gladly accepted. And what you say makes perfect sense based on what I am seeing/feeling happening.

[2talltim]

56 minutes ago, Tonik said:

Depends if I sell the current house and get a big pole barn at the new house or just add an over-sized shed to the current house. So the choices would be full on toy hauler or a fold away harbor freight trailer.

Sell you my house, BIg Pole Barn and less than 20 min to the track.  and if you act now I'll throw in a tire changer for $900 more.  

[Tonik]

2 minutes ago, 2talltim said:

Sell you my house, BIg Pole Barn and less than 20 min to the track.  and if you act now I'll throw in a tire changer for $900 more.  

You are my tire changer, bitch.

[2talltim]

3 minutes ago, Tonik said:

You are my tire changer, bitch.

High Class Hoe

[redkow97]

As I've scrolled through this thread, I keep reading Craig's posts and thinking, "yep. I was just about to type that."

I do not believe for one second that you're nearing the limits of even a stock FZ6.  IF you are, it's because you're making the bike work harder than it should be.  That means you need better skills and more practice, not a new bike. 

I'm also concerned by your comfort statements.  Will you be able to ride a supersport in anger for 20 minutes without discomfort?  Or is the FZ6 the best compromise between comfort and capability?  (with suspension and braking upgrades as possible improvements)

 

I got antsy and bought a 1993 Honda F2 after five track days on my EX500.  While the sportier bike did make me faster on the track, I was nowhere near the EX500's limits. 

So now time for the hard question - Do you really want to be the best rider you can be, or do you just want to have fun and go a little faster?

Riding around a stock bike's limitations is a hugely underrated learning tool.  That's at least half of the appeal of riding and racing XR100s...  You learn how to handle slides, scrub speed with the rear brake, and deal with a noodle frame and crap suspension (and you learn it below 50 mph).  You could do the same on an FZ6 and definitely find its limits before you would find the limits of a modern 600.  So do you want to learn to ride ANY bike fast, or do you prefer to buy a bike that is so much more capable than you that you'll probably never find its limits, let alone need to ride around them?

My personal opinion is that pursuing the latter drives people away from the track prematurely, because they start blowing their cash on their bike, parts, etc. rather than seat time and tires.  YMMV.

[redkow97]

One more thought that occurred to me - I would NEVER tell anyone not to spend money making their bike crash better.  Case covers, clip-ons, folding levers, etc. - anything that makes your bike cheaper to fix after a crash is a good investment, IMHO.  That's another plus on the XR100.  It rarely breaks, and when it does, it's almost always a cheap fix.  You may want to rent one before you decide you need a faster bike.  Seeing what better riders can do on the same equipment is eye-opening.

[Helmutt]

I think the FZ would suffice nicely for quite some time once the suspenders are setup proper and a few ergo items are added to help get you in "the pocket".  Jim, you get off the seat a bit more and the ground clearance will surely improve since the bike will corner more upright.   Then once better bp becomes muscle memory, the lean angles and corner speeds climb as your confidence increases, all relative to your form.  I'd say you're better off to keep it, upfit it, and track it for a bit