Columbus, you wild.

[Otis Nice]

Its a super complicated issue, but we live in a world where POC just do not respect cops in an way.

 

I know several POC who respect officers. YMMV.

 

Media only makes that worse.

 

Absolutely agree.

[oh8sti]

I have been pulled over countless times. I have never once felt like I was going to get shot. I get nervous each time, but you know what I do? I turn my shit off, put my keys on my pinky finger, open my palms and rest them open on the top of my steering wheel. Some people might think this is over thinking things but think about what the cop is walking into. He has no idea who he is pulling over and how many times has a cop walked up to a car and been shot immediately.

 

My goal is to make the cop feel as comfortable as possible by posing no threat at all. I talk to them with respect and generally I get that in return. I usually have a gun on me or in my car and thats the first thing out of my mouth. I dont move, I dont shuffle around I wait until the LE tell me to do anything.

 

I just wish the BLM movement would promote a shred of that mentality. No one had to teach me that. I came up with that on my own. I put myself in their shoes, humbled myself a little and guess what? I walk away with a ticket and I go on my way.

[oh8sti]

I know several POC who respect officers. YMMV.

 

 

 

Absolutely agree.

 

Sorry, that was wrong of me to blanket all POC. That isnt true. What I meant is there seems to be a sense of "fuck 12" being taught to POC and everyone through media, athletes, Hollywood..

 

To me, thats wrong. Prosecute wrongdoing, but dont say that a cop saving the life of several POC by taking out the assailant is racists or murder of the assailant. It weakens the position and validity of the movement.

[greg1647545532]

Any of those examples we posted result in prosecutions?

[10phone2]

mabye sending in a social worker would have fixed everything.

[Mensan]

ITT: People make arguments that POC have a more difficult time escaping poverty, and that POC are targeted by police (making them afraid for their lives when interacting with police).

 

Also ITT: White people telling stories of how they successfully escape poverty, or interact with police.

 

This is LITERALLY the argument your opponents are making. You have agreed with your opponents.

[Mace1647545504]

Dafuq does it matter the shade of melanin? The question posed was, and I quote, "Can somebody link me to just one police shooting where the victim wasn't doing something asinine that got the whole thing started?" It didn't mention race.

 

But the media has made it about race and if you look at responses they too have made it racial

[Patrick]

mabye sending in a social worker would have fixed everything.

 

There are some situations where having a social worker accompany LEOs is appropriate for deescalation, but yeah that situation ain't one. Very situational, and if applied properly, it can be effective.

[Otis Nice]

ITT: People make arguments that POC have a more difficult time escaping poverty, and that POC are targeted by police (making them afraid for their lives when interacting with police).

 

Also ITT: White people telling stories of how they successfully escape poverty, or interact with police.

 

This is LITERALLY the argument your opponents are making. You have agreed with your opponents.

 

Ope.

 

But the media has made it about race and if you look at responses they too have made it racial

 

My only response to this and advice to you is as such: you're not the media. Don't aid them nor stoop to their level. Don't make everything about race.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Otis Nice

[TTQ B4U]

I have been pulled over countless times. I have never once felt like I was going to get shot. I get nervous each time, but you know what I do? I turn my shit off, put my keys on my pinky finger, open my palms and rest them open on the top of my steering wheel. Some people might think this is over thinking things but think about what the cop is walking into. He has no idea who he is pulling over and how many times has a cop walked up to a car and been shot immediately.

 

My goal is to make the cop feel as comfortable as possible by posing no threat at all. I talk to them with respect and generally I get that in return. I usually have a gun on me or in my car and thats the first thing out of my mouth. I dont move, I dont shuffle around I wait until the LE tell me to do anything.

 

 

^^ common sense for anyone regardless of race. most all the shit that goes down and makes news and gets hype however involves actions that lack common sense. stupid people, doing stupid shit and they win the stupid prize.

 

in the recent Cbus case, the 16yr old girl did some pretty dumb shit with several LEO's on scene and she won the prize. Sad but it was no doubt a rough life and she paid for it unfortunately. poor to no parenting, lack of a good family, etc. is the cause of most all of it. their economic situation is no excuse. there are no excuses for shitty behavior. people can continue to point fingers, cry foul, etc. but until they take action on making things in their own life better day forward, they are living on a hamster wheel full of piss and shit and it will continue to hit them as they run. The system and the people running it are very little to blame, the accountability and actions lie within each person not just the system.

[Jelloman4571647545499]

Honest question. Can somebody link me to just one police shooting where the victim wasn't doing something asinine that got the whole thing started?

 

Legitimately, the only one I can think of is the white kid lying on the hallway floor of a hotel that gets lit up by a cop with a twitchy finger.

 

The AAR stated that the officer thought he was reaching while he was kneeling on that incident.

[Jelloman4571647545499]

There are some situations where having a social worker accompany LEOs is appropriate for deescalation, but yeah that situation ain't one. Very situational, and if applied properly, it can be effective.

 

Honestly, those times are very few and far between. I can think of only a few times where a social worker, with their vast 20 credit hour knowledge, would be of assistance at a scene. Those very limited times involved children less than 5 years old and the County refused to send a social worker to the scene anyways due to lack of employees coming to work.

[Versluis]

This country is falling apart. I feel bad for all LEO that are trying to serve and protect the neighborhoods they serve.

[Geeto67]

Help me understand why you think you have reason to fear an interaction with LE?

 

Why I would have reason? The Holocaust, Klan Activities, white supremacist's deeply rooted hold on public service. But short of whipping my cock out, there isn't much to visually identify me with a marginalized group, so I get to enjoy the same white privilege as some of you.

 

Part of my white privilege is that I am often mouthy with police officers. Not aggressive just a smart ass, I know I am going to get any ticket kicked in the court process so there is no value in ever trying to argue with them, I just crack jokes at their expense, ask them how their quota is doing, and generally don't buy into their power trip bull shit. I have never had an officer handcuff me, point a pistol at me, even ask me to step out of the vehicle. a couple of them have even let me go without a warning. Not bragging, I just know that the likelihood of an officer killing me in a routine traffic stop is just really low.

 

If there's a good chance you think it could be you in a situation being shot by LE, why would LE act in a manner that would make you feel threatened by them.

 

This is a good question but it doesn't cover the topic we are discussing, only a small part. Let's look at it this way instead:

 

We both agree that people are culturally being taught to fear interactions with law enforcement. The part we disagree on is whether that fear is justified or not. You say it isn't - that civilians have nothing to fear from police and any bad outcome is inherently their fault. However history has shown flaws in that perspective.

 

From the foundation of this country to the present day law enforcement has been the point of the spear on the oppression of immigrants, the poor, and people of color (esp. Asians and black people). Early law enforcement didn't even enforce criminal statutes so much as it just did what it felt was needed to keep the peace, it's only starting in the latter half of the 20th century that law enforcement has begun to be held accountable for constitutional and civil rights transgressions en masse.

 

If you were a black person in history in this country, it was law enforcement that dragged you out of your home in the middle of the night when you were a slave and weren't where your master wanted you to be, it was law enforcement that came to drag your relative away to be chemically castrated during the eugenics movement, it was law enforcement that hauled your relatives away to meet a lynch mob because of some trivial offense, It was law enforcement that came with a warrant and arrested you for unjust written laws during the Jim Crow era. It was law enforcement that stopped you and falsely charged you with a crime during the civil rights era as a way to keep you silent. White people didn't have this happen to them in nearly the scale or scope (unless you were italian, Irish, or jewish in which case it wasn't as pervasive but it was similar).

 

These situations create stories that are handed down between generations in the oral tradition, and every single black person in American who has family roots in this country to the 1800's has at least one story like the above. It's not that an entire culture is actively being taught to hate or fear law enforcement, many POC are part of law enforcement (after having been kept out of it for over a century), it just that after you hear so many family histories, law enforcement becomes somewhat of a real life boogey man or at the very least not something to be trusted (even though most people want to trust law enforcement).

 

Has law enforcement improved in the last 200 years? absolutely. But it has undeniably historically breached the trust of groups of people for which it has not done enough to repair that breach. In large part the core of how police departments operate are based upon a framework that comes directly from the Jim Crow/Segregation era with just enough band aids laid on top to obscure that there are some big problems not being addressed. Cases like Philando Castile, Brionna Taylor, and George Floyd bring them right to the surface. Even if you have "good cops", they are still working with an inherently intentionally biased system. The case of Adrian Schoolcraft (exposed how the NYPD's officer tracking incentivized officers to ignore larger crimes and falsely accuse people of smaller infractions) showed how even something seemingly race neutral as software has disastrous racial effects when put into the law enforcement frame work - and the level of corruption that agencies will resort to in order to hide this fact.

 

I am not saying that "be on your best behavior" isn't good advice for interacting with LEO's, It absolutely is. But it comes with the asterisk that for some people (mostly POC), it isn't going to be enough and there is nothing a civilian can do about it when it happens.

 

does this help explain it? can you start to see why some people might have a legitimate fear of LEO's just because they are LEO's?

[10phone2]

"every single black person in American who has family roots in this country to the 1800's has at least one story like the above" ..... oh really. huh. i guess i will have to remind my extended family to make a story up just to be cool these days.

[Geeto67]

"every single black person in American who has family roots in this country to the 1800's has at least one story like the above" ..... oh really. huh. i guess i will have to remind my extended family to make a story up just to be cool these days.

 

Quit Playing like we didn't have a conversation about your family experiences in Louisiana.

[10phone2]

well yes i lived there when david duke ran for govenor, but the poor experiences were across the board from a slew of races. i also would move back there in a blink of an eye of new orleans had more public tennis courts. saying every black person has had family drug out there house by police isnt accurate and nothing more the never ending "i'm the victim" that is pushed by the media. you yourself stated if someone isn't jewish then they shouldn't comment on jews.... then do the same regarding other races your not.

[gillbot]

I have never had an officer handcuff me, point a pistol at me, even ask me to step out of the vehicle. a couple of them have even let me go without a warning.

 

I have had all of those happen at one point in time, mainly in my much younger days. I am not here to marginalize the experiences of those who do fear an encounter with LEO's, but to ask that you think before you speak.

[Geeto67]

well yes i lived there when david duke ran for govenor, but the poor experiences were across the board from a slew of races. i also would move back there in a blink of an eye of new orleans had more public tennis courts. saying every black person has had family drug out there house by police isnt accurate and nothing more the never ending "i'm the victim" that is pushed by the media. you yourself stated if someone isn't jewish then they shouldn't comment on jews.... then do the same regarding other races your not.

 

New Orleans is a special case in and of itself because police corruption (esp at that time) was considered the worst in the country across the board, and it was one of the most dangerous cities at the time because of that.

 

Still, you are trying to say that at a time when an open racist/anti-Semite, former leader and founder of the louisiana KKK, a man known for wearing a NAZI uniform around in public, was running for the highest chair in the state of Louisiana (and also the head of law enforcement for the state) and garnering almost 40% of the vote that it sent the message to the black community that they could trust law enforcement, is that right? come on dude, you know that sounds silly.

 

Remember at the same time David Duke was running for office, an NOPD Officer actually hired a hit man who murdered Kim Groves, a woman in the 9th ward who reported the officer for police brutality. He didn't even try to hide it - enlisting his fellow officers in the scheme over police radio (which is how it was captured by federal agents who were already investigating civil rights abuse by the NOPD). You are going to tell me that a black woman being gunned down in the street by an agent of the NOPD inspired confidence in the community that policing was fair? Do you think this would have still happened in Old Metairie? or Mandeville?

[Geeto67]

I have had all of those happen at one point in time, mainly in my much younger days. I am not here to marginalize the experiences of those who do fear an encounter with LEO's, but to ask that you think before you speak.

 

According to Joe, In every single case it was 100% your fault that happened. Do you agree?

 

Remember his argument is that in cases where interactions with LEO's go bad it was because the person was not acting appropriately and that the reason it happens more often with people of color is because they are trained to fear and hate police and therefore escalate the situation.

[TTQ B4U]

Not bragging, I just know that the likelihood of an officer killing me in a routine traffic stop is just really low.

 

 

it's not because you aren't black. it's likely because you aren't attacking them or getting physical in any way. I know plenty of black and brown people who have lots of interactions via traffic stops and none of them bitch or were treated poorly.

 

Actually, I've been treated more aggressively on two separate occasions than any of theirs. My brother in law is as black as they come skin tone wise, can play the part of a brother in the hood and does yet never has issues and he is in fair share of stops in both his car and on his Harley. Why....because he's laid back, and doesn't cause trouble. Like you and me, he knows the lawyers in our family can get the tickets kicked or down to points only or a small fine. Does shit happen, sure. It's a rarity more than common. It's a continued narrative by the media for clicks and money that's all.

 

The movement to hurt policing is only going to hurt the people more than the rare instances of abuse that exist, but hey, who cares....clearly most don't. Can't save stupid. Portland's Mayor and many in the MN area are feeling that stupid. Only they can save themselves. Eventually the cycle will calm and they too will learn. Act like a fool with a LEO encounter and it will not go well. In the end, people need more accountability for their own actions. Fuck, if you're going to run drugs or be thug, at least fix your tail lights and drive like a normal person then perhaps you won't get stopped to begin with. OSP makes nearly all their stops that result in drug busts on stupid shit. SMH at criminals who miss the little details that end up getting them caught. It's laughable actually.

Edited April 26, 2021 by TTQ B4U

[Mojoe]

I'm not entertaining your accusations to unpack all the bullshit you spewed. You are simply argumentative with any comment that does not compliment what you say. I don't need you to agree with me and I don't need you to concede and say I'm right. Your post's will away twist what someone says to play your angle you want to play. You are a tremendous waste of time. There is no discussion with you. You are right, and everyone must agree with you, or you will bore them to death with your online assault.

 

Girl attacking someone with a knife got shot before she could hurt them. Fuck around and find out, she did.

[Geeto67]

it's not because you aren't black. it's likely because you aren't attacking them or getting physical in any way. I know plenty of black and brown people who have lots of interactions via traffic stops and none of them bitch or were treated poorly.

 

Nope. I've been in more than one situation where it was obvious my large physical frame intimidated the officer(s). I've actually had one officer tell me as much. This includes one interaction where I was physically holding a .22 cal pistol.

 

I didn't bring this up as some weird flex, other's were bringing up their experiences as proof that they did what the officer said and were fine and I just wanted to show how absurd it was to rely on individual experience when talking about a societal problem.

 

Actually, I've been treated more aggressively on two separate occasions than any of theirs. My brother in law is as black as they come skin tone wise, can play the part of a brother in the hood and does yet never has issues and he is in fair share of stops in both his car and on his Harley. Why....because he's laid back, and doesn't cause trouble. Like you and me, he knows the lawyers in our family can get the tickets kicked or down to points only or a small fine.

 

 

You are missing the point. It's not that every interaction with one race goes well and every interaction with other races goes poorly. The majority of interactions with police across all people don't result in death, false accusation, or some other bad outcome. We are talking about a specific subset of police interactions where things did go wrong and it wasn't because of the actions of the civilian involved. The argument Joe put forth is that there is no such thing because culturally one group is taught to fear/hate the police - despite clear examples being listed.

 

Again, nobody is saying don't poke the bear is bad advice, In general "don't be an asshole" is good advice. That said it won't save you in every situation and as the numbers bear out for people of color is it less effective. It doesn't mean you me or they shouldn't still do it, it just means this idea that you being shot by police is always 100% your fault is bullshit.

[Geeto67]

I'm not entertaining your accusations to unpack all the bullshit you spewed. You are simply argumentative with any comment that does not compliment what you say. I don't need you to agree with me and I don't need you to concede and say I'm right. Your post's will away twist what someone says to play your angle you want to play. You are a tremendous waste of time. There is no discussion with you. You are right, and everyone must agree with you, or you will bore them to death with your online assault.

 

Girl attacking someone with a knife got shot before she could hurt them. Fuck around and find out, she did.

 

I don't think there is much argument to be had from my opinion that being callous about human life in general is ghoulish. It is. I'm sorry that whatever you have been through in life made you devalue human life. It's my opinion, and my right to say it's gross, and I'll continue to do it every time you try to do that weird flex where you show how "tough" you are by being indifferent to human life.

 

Did you read anything I wrote? based on your comments I am going to say no. Can't have a discussion if you aren't listening to what someone is saying. I read all your comments, even that weird little biography that clearly showed you were butthurt about "white privilege", and I came to discuss it. Yeah I don't have to agree with it but if you get to say it I get to respond. Don't put out there what you aren't prepared for someone to disagree with if it is so precious to you. I read your comments, found them steeped in bullshit, and said as much based on the merits of the comments and not your character. I can't say you have done the same. I think at one point you even said you aren't open minded and you don't want to consider putting yourself in anybody's shoes.

 

Bottom line you don't want a discussion you just want someone to validate your ghoulishness, and I'm sorry I won't.

[gillbot]

According to Joe, In every single case it was 100% your fault that happened. Do you agree?

 

Remember his argument is that in cases where interactions with LEO's go bad it was because the person was not acting appropriately and that the reason it happens more often with people of color is because they are trained to fear and hate police and therefore escalate the situation.

 

The difference is, I’m not here to argue against someone else’s opinion like yourself. He is entitled to his thoughts, you yours and me mine. I’m not soapboxing trying to undermine or sway anyone to my opinion.

 

I can see value in his thoughts as well as some in yours. Unfortunately the current climate has people either trying to further support what they believe or arguing on behalf that the other side is wrong. That is my only opinion on the matter.