Ammo for your carry gun

[Lost]

Instead of trashing up the other thread.

My attorney advised me not to use frangible rounds in my carry gun. He also advised me to avoid high velocity rounds, pass thru's hitting innocents.

I carry 45 long colt with hollow points. Tarus judge is my choice.

Just something to think about that's all.

The attorneys explanation to me was this.

A standard hollow point will stop most men. If you use a frangible round such as a black talon, ranger stx or hydroshock it shows that you intend to do excessive bodily harm. You intend to kill the attacker as apposed to just stopping the attack.

again not my explanation.

Another question to the group.......How much liability insurance do you carry on yourself and does it cover you if you use your carry gun?????

[that dude]

i carry around two iron fist. kinda like fist of fury but not quite. i also have two tickets to the gun show if your interested.

twin glock fortys

[Likwid]

The goal is to stop someone, not put a hole through them. Your attorney is being overly cautious, as is his job. There is no magic bullet that will "look better" in court than any other. Plain and simple, you carry a gun you'll be painted as a gun toting bloodthirsty man.

[chevysoldier]

The law describes something called "deadly force" If someone is a threat to my life or my families lives, I will use deadly force. Right now I only have Law Enforcement Hollow points but am looking into Magsafe ammo. Two bucks a round, but what is your life worth?

"In controlled tests with .357 law enforcement loads, the 10 mm used by the FBI, and other hollow points, MagSafe .380 ACP beat 'em all! Fragments to penetrate... so it's safer, without ricochets. Handcrafted to precise specs, making it accurate and reliable."

I have seen the damage these rounds will do to a watermelon, which I have been told is comparable to the human body as far as seeing how the ammo damages it. Very cool.

[Likwid]

Just to be clear, there is a difference between "deadly force" and "justified homicide" ...

[that dude]

fight with what god gave ya

[chevysoldier]

Just to be clear, there is a difference between "deadly force" and "justified homicide" ...

My point is, Im not going to shoot the guy in the leg to stop him just because I am worried what could happen if I kill him. I am authorized to use deadly force to protect my life and if the force I use ends up being deadly, then so be it. I will not lose sleep at night.

[Likwid]

My point is, Im not going to shoot the guy in the leg to stop him just because I am worried what could happen if I kill him. I am authorized to use deadly force to protect my life and if the force I use ends up being deadly, then so be it. I will not lose sleep at night.

Oh no no no, sorry, that's not what I meant at all.

We're justified to use deadly force with self defense, but only until the threat is gone. Someone breaks into my house and I think they're going to seriously harm me or my wife you're right, I'm shooting.... I was simply saying, if you missed or hit them in the leg and they ran away, you can't shoot them in the back since the threat is gone.

My whole point is just that it doesn't matter what ammo you carry, someone trying to paint a picture will use that. You carry frangible they'll say you wanted to make them suffer, you carry FMJ they'll say you don't care about what's beyond your target, you carry HP and they'll say you're looking to cause as much damage .... etc etc etc

I agree not to use frangible rounds, a quality HP is all you need.

[Uncle Punk]

If you have not met the burden for the use of deadly force it matters little the method applied. No where is it written that there is an accepted level of force necessary to achieve that goal. (Tangents about meeting force with the next level don’t apply here.) Ball ammo will achieve the same result with the least amount of damage if placed properly; we are not required to only use ball ammo to protect ourselves. We have the responsibility for the damage caused by every projectile leaving our handguns so carrying ball ammo is something most of us won't do because of over penetration. Taking a follow up shot could be considered excessive more so than the ammo used and yet, we are not required to make a ten count between shots to se if we have done enough damage to stop the threat. If you are involved in a good shoot by meeting your burden for the use of deadly force I say don't worry about it. Can you show me where anyone has been harmed by the courts in a good shoot because of the ammo used?

[Uncle Punk]

I now see the thread that this was spun off of. If you applied deadly force properly civil action has been legislated out of your concern.

[chevysoldier]

Oh no no no, sorry, that's not what I meant at all.

We're justified to use deadly force with self defense, but only until the threat is gone. Someone breaks into my house and I think they're going to seriously harm me or my wife you're right, I'm shooting.... I was simply saying, if you missed or hit them in the leg and they ran away, you can't shoot them in the back since the threat is gone.

My whole point is just that it doesn't matter what ammo you carry, someone trying to paint a picture will use that. You carry frangible they'll say you wanted to make them suffer, you carry FMJ they'll say you don't care about what's beyond your target, you carry HP and they'll say you're looking to cause as much damage .... etc etc etc

I agree not to use frangible rounds, a quality HP is all you need.

Ok, tracking. We are on the same page.

I had mentioned earlier the magsafe rounds. they are very safe for home defense. Low recoil and wall penetration. Massive kinetic energy dump. I want to shoot the bad guy, not the neighbor in the next room. That is a big concern. So why are you against frangible ammo?

[Hoblick]

again ill post this

if some points a gun if in your face with intent to harm, you are protecting yourself. of course you intend put them down. whats the purpose of conceal carry if you cant protect yourself. shouldnt matter what round you use. that would be like saying using a 10mm is malicious intent. should have carried a 38 instead

why would someone say that about type of ammo and not the caliber.

the op uses a 45 which is a more powerful round than my 40.. so his intent would be more malicious then me right?

it is just a bunch of BS

i know the reason for the post was to provide some info, buy like someone else said better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6

[Lost]

IMHO there is a huge difference between pulling a carry side arm in the grocery store parking lot and a home defense weapon.

My weapon for home defense is a 12 gauge with #4 shot and a slug barrel and pistol grips. It probably won't kill ya but shred the attacker and stop the event.

If you shoot someone, in self defense or not, your case will go to the grand jury. In a rural area no problem but in an urban surban area you need to worry about gun and ammo perceptions and myths.

I asked the attorney about caliber choices, he said unless you chose something extreme like a 44 mag or 50 AE jury's don't seem to care about caliber. Again, that is why I have him on retainer.

So no one answered about liability insurance?

[balaormiga]

fight with what god gave ya

My first choice. I would only use my weapon if absolutely necessary. I prefer hand to hand actually.

[walther_gsp]

The attorneys explanation to me was this.

A standard hollow point will stop most men. If you use a frangible round such as a black talon, ranger stx or hydroshock it shows that you intend to do excessive bodily harm. You intend to kill the attacker as apposed to just stopping the attack.

again not my explanation.

Too bad your attorney doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. All those ammo types you mentioned are standard hollowpoints not frangible rounds. Frangible rounds are meant to breakup on impact to avoid overpenetration. An example would be the glaser safety slugs. Hell, according to your attorney's logic, frangible ammo may be best to use for self defense since its less likely to over penetrate or ricochet.

I'd suggest a new attorney for any gun/self defense related issues you may find yourself in.

[walther_gsp]

For what its worth, I don't have liability insurance. I have several attorney options handy, one of which is an FFL/ nra instructor.

The NRA will also help provide legal assistance should you ever defend yourself with a firearm.

[chevysoldier]

Too bad your attorney doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. All those ammo types you mentioned are standard hollowpoints not frangible rounds. Frangible rounds are meant to breakup on impact to avoid overpenetration. An example would be the glaser safety slugs. Hell, according to your attorney's logic, frangible ammo may be best to use for self defense since its less likely to over penetrate or ricochet.

I'd suggest a new attorney for any gun/self defense related issues you may find yourself in.

That is my understanding, so why do people have a problem with this type of ammo?

[walther_gsp]

That is my understanding, so why do people have a problem with this type of ammo?

It's meant for specific use cases, not as an end all/be all.

Underpenetration can be just as bad as over penetration. Think of this, if you have a self defense scenario and the bad guy takes cover behind something, consider yourself screwed.

Edited December 5, 2009 by walther_gsp

[Likwid]

It's meant for specific use cases, not as an end all/be all.

Underpenetration can be just as bad as over penetration. Think of this, if you have a self defense scenario and the bad guy takes cover behind something, consider yourself screwed.

Or if he's wearing a heavy sweetshirt

[timotheus]

heaven forbid, but if i need to shoot someone i will be using speer gold dot hollow points in my p-229 and i will be shooting center mass

[Likwid]

I have Speer GDs too! I was just so impressed with the expansion results from the HSTs I had to get them.

[that dude]

twin glock fortys

[chevysoldier]

It's meant for specific use cases, not as an end all/be all.

Underpenetration can be just as bad as over penetration. Think of this, if you have a self defense scenario and the bad guy takes cover behind something, consider yourself screwed.

I know a guy real big into CC and guns, he alternates his rounds.

twin glock fortys

lol

[timotheus]

my brother gave me 1000 rounds of speer hp's for a christmas present......cool brother huh ?

[walther_gsp]

I know a guy real big into CC and guns, he alternates his rounds.

lol

Sounds kinda silly. Different ammo in different mags would make more sense. Personally, I think your average JHP in your caliber of choice is the best way to go for most folks. If you are so worried about ammo that you alternate rounds in your mag, you spend WAY too much time on gun forums.

In all fairness, I have had multiple types of ammo loaded in a mag before, but it was a specific use case. I would carry a pistol with the first few rounds in the mag being "snake shot" when hiking on my family's property in SE Ohio due to the number of copperhead sightings.

Edited December 5, 2009 by walther_gsp