MidgetTodd Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Track Days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjachic Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Track Days haha don't think i'm quite ready for that!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 haha don't think i'm quite ready for that!!!!Really??? Anybody is ready because its broke into groups and skill levels. You will learn more in one track day than in an entire season on the street. You will also learn in a controled safe environment. You will be a better safer rider for it as well. I know many that learned to ride in track days without ever hitting the street first and they are some of best riders now because of it. A track day provides you one on one instruction with control riders and intructors as well as every other rider there. Everybody will help you. You also get a gravel free surface with no on coming traffic. Any of us will be more than happy to "tow" you around the track, all day if needed. Tow you around means we will go a pace that is good for you and the proper line as well as body position allowing you to attach yourself to our back tire and do everything we do and increase the pace as your skill allows. Then when you feel comfortable you come around and run your pace and we'll follow you for a few laps and then pull off and talk about how you did. So, not ready? Bullshit, everyone is ready and I have never heard anyone regrets a track day. Most get addicted and do many more. You will become a great rider and learn more than you ever will on the street period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjachic Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Really??? Anybody is ready because its broke into groups and skill levels. You will learn more in one track day than in an entire season on the street. You will also learn in a controled safe environment. You will be a better safer rider for it as well. I know many that learned to ride in track days without ever hitting the street first and they are some of best riders now because of it. A track day provides you one on one instruction with control riders and intructors as well as every other rider there. Everybody will help you. You also get a gravel free surface with no on coming traffic. Any of us will be more than happy to "tow" you around the track, all day if needed. Tow you around means we will go a pace that is good for you and the proper line as well as body position allowing you to attach yourself to our back tire and do everything we do and increase the pace as your skill allows. Then when you feel comfortable you come around and run your pace and we'll follow you for a few laps and then pull off and talk about how you did. So, not ready? Bullshit, everyone is ready and I have never heard anyone regrets a track day. Most get addicted and do many more. You will become a great rider and learn more than you ever will on the street periodWow I didnt realize that. That actually sounds like the nest idea ever. I'm DEF DOWN!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Wow I didnt realize that. That actually sounds like the nest idea ever. I'm DEF DOWN!!!!!There's hope for you. Myself and Ductati Brian are at Mid Ohio a lot look us up if you want help. Nesba, Stt and MidOhio ptr all have great programs. Many here do it and there is always someone willing to trailer your bike to the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I agree with Papa. Jack's advice is very sound. In fact, if you are "not happy with your speed" and get mid turn and brake harder or more to slow down where you are, guess what the result is? We call that a low side...Anyways, it was good and precise and above all, accurate...I guess my point was that if you are braking, and you start to turn, you don't just let go of the brakes because your wheels aren't straight...keep braking until you are happy with your speed.Example: If you come into a corner too fast, and just let go of the brake because your wheels aren't straight, you're going to go wide. If it's a right turn, there could be a cement truck in the area of you going too wide... Edited October 16, 2012 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) ^^^Tires have a fixed amout of grip.You can use that grip for cornering or braking (or acceleration). When you divide that grip between cornering and braking, bad things can happen.Trail braking has a place, but it's an advanced technique with certain risks. I wouldn't suggest that for a newer rider. Edited October 16, 2012 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjachic Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 There's hope for you. Myself and Ductati Brian are at Mid Ohio a lot look us up if you want help. Nesba, Stt and MidOhio ptr all have great programs. Many here do it and there is always someone willing to trailer your bike to the track.Yeah if I can ever get a sat off of work I can def make that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) ^^^Tires have a fixed amout of grip.sort of... based on how you distribute the weight of the bike (using the brakes or the throttle) you can add more grip to one of the tires by removing grip from another...You can use that grip for cornering or braking (or acceleration). When you divide that grip between cornering and braking, bad things can happen.Trail braking has a place, but it's an advanced technique with certain risks. I wouldn't suggest that for a newer rider.Why not? the sooner you grasp the concept the more time you have to practice... it's one less "bad habit" that you have to unlearn.I'm definitely not suggesting she go full bore into a corner and jam the brakes at the apex... What I'm suggesting is that she use the brakes properly, regardless of whether her wheels are straight or not. Edited October 16, 2012 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah if I can ever get a sat off of work I can def make that happen.Track days are 7 days a week. MidOhio does mornings evenings and all day ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjachic Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Track days are 7 days a week. MidOhio does mornings evenings and all day onesLet me rephrase that....I work 2 jobs. My main one is Mon-Fri 8-whatever time i'm done which is usually after 4:30. Then I have a second job that I work nights and weekends at. So hopefully I'll have time when I can get out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFlash Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I would adviSe you to learn to spell adviCe before giving it.I don't mnid the spilleng erorrs so much. I'm not so sure prpoper spilleng is all that nesascery to get the point acorss. I'll keep a tab open to an onilne dinociatry many times in order to not mipsesll words I just didn't today. I would adviZe it as a handy little tool."I cdn'uolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg: the phaonmneel pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rseearch taem at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Scuh a cdonition is arppoiatrely cllaed Typoglycemia . "Amzanig huh? Yaeh and you awlyas thguoht slpeling was ipmorantt.""In a puiltacibon of New Scnieitst you could ramdinose all the letetrs, keipeng the first two and last two the same, and reibadailty would hadrly be aftcfeed. My ansaylis did not come to much beucase the thoery at the time was for shape and senqeuce retigcionon. Saberi's work sugsegts we may have some pofrweul palrlael prsooscers at work. The resaon for this is suerly that idnetiyfing coentnt by paarllel prseocsing speeds up regnicoiton. We only need the first and last two letetrs to spot chganes in meniang."Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. It was gnawing to come out. Coffee. Where's the coffee?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typoglycemia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjachic Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFlash Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 ...You will learn more in one track day than in an entire season on the street. ... A track day provides you one on one instruction with control riders and intructors as well as every other rider there. ... You will become a great rider and learn more than you ever will on the street periodI would like to know more about this myself. I've heard of track days and it sounds like a great training tool to insure a much higher degree of safety on the road. Reacting to an immediate hazard can require a split second reaction you don't have time to put thought into.Besides developing a quick reflex for riding, my concern has always been to not develop bad habits that are next to impossible to unlearn. I would rather learn proper techniques the first time.Got a link for how to learn more about track days and where it's offered?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Let me rephrase that....I work 2 jobs. My main one is Mon-Fri 8-whatever time i'm done which is usually after 4:30. Then I have a second job that I work nights and weekends at. So hopefully I'll have time when I can get out there.The evening sessions at MidOhio hit the track at 430, maybe if you spent less time on here talking to me you'd be done earlier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjachic Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 The evening sessions at MidOhio hit the track at 430, maybe if you spent less time on here talking to me you'd be done earlierWell mon and wed, I have to be here til at least 4:30 and tues, thurs fri until at least 4. right now it's pretty slow but sometimes i get a client late in the day and then have to clean up after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Got a link for how to learn more about track days and where it's offered?.The search button here as there are hundreds of threads about it. The track section of this site. Google STT "sportbike track time" NESBA "northeast sportbike association" MIDOHIO PTR "performance track riding" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 sort of... based on how you distribute the weight of the bike (using the brakes or the throttle) you can add more grip to one of the tires by removing grip from another...Why not? the sooner you grasp the concept the more time you have to practice... it's one less "bad habit" that you have to unlearn.I'm definitely not suggesting she go full bore into a corner and jam the brakes at the apex... What I'm suggesting is that she use the brakes properly, regardless of whether her wheels are straight or not.Trail braking isn't really a 'good habit.' You're better off staying off the brakes and leaning further with a slight throttle input as IP mentioned above...see Keith Code Bike Cornering Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 sometimes i get a client late in the day and then have to clean up after.Whoa now cowgirl, that sounds kinky! Just what is it you do?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Baby steps' date=' Magz. Your putting the cart before the horse. Besides, removing grip from the front tire, by applying throttle, doesn't help with braking.[/quote']That's my point. If you throttle into a turn you're shifting the weight towards the back tire, removing grip from the front tire for turning.Keep on the brakes and your front tire actually has more grip because there is more downward force holding that tire to the pavement.Just because you start to lean doesn't mean you should just let the brakes go. If your front tire is not seeing enough force to utilize the brakes effectively, then what's the point? Are you going to brake with the rear and throttle at the same time?no, I'm suggesting braking with both front and rear, more with rear, shifting more weight (and traction) to the tire that is working on changing your direction of travel. Once you hit the apex, you have some options.I'm just suggesting that you use all of the tools you have at your disposal, brake, throttle, lean angle, and not stick to some sort of draconian law that says immediately let go of your brakes unless you're straight up and down.... Edited October 16, 2012 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 That's my point. If you throttle into a turn you're shifting the weight towards the back tire, removing grip from the front tire for turning.Keep on the brakes and your front tire actually has more grip because there is more downward force holding that tire to the pavement.Just because you start to lean doesn't mean you should just let the brakes go.no, I'm suggesting braking with both front and rear, more with rear, shifting more weight (and traction) to the tire that is working on changing your direction of travel. Once you hit the apex, you have some options.I'm just suggesting that you use all of the tools you have at your disposal, brake, throttle, lean angle, and not stick to some sort of draconian law that says never to use your brakes unless you're straight up and down....Out of curiosity, what are you basing this on? Did you reason this yourself, or have you gotten it from another source?What you are suggesting is contradictory to what most will teach, including Keith Code.Not to sound like a dick, but what you're explaining kinda sounds like mistakes made by inexperienced riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Out of curiosity, what are you basing this on? Did you reason this yourself, or have you gotten it from another source?What you are suggesting is contradictory to what most will teach, including Keith Code.Not to sound like a dick, but what you're explaining kinda sounds like mistakes made by inexperienced riders.this is trail braking 101http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_brakingn applying this technique, motorcycle riders approach turns applying front brakes to reduce speed. As they enter the turn, they slowly ease off the brakes, gradually decreasing or trailing off the brakes as motorcycle lean increases. This is done for several reasons. First, it gives more traction because the downward force on the front tire is increased by load transfer. Second, as the brakes are applied and the weight shifts forward, the forks are compressed.[1] The compression of the forks changes the motorcycles steering geometry, decreasing stability in a way that makes the motorcycle more apt to lean and more quickly change direction. Third, decreasing speed decreases the motorcycle's cornering radius. Conversely, accelerating while turning increases the motorcycles cornering radius. Fourth, trailing off the brakes while entering blind or tight corners allows the rider to slow if something unexpected blocks the rider's path. Because the motorcycle is already on the brakes and the front tire is getting additional traction from already slowing, the rider can slow even more with very little risk, depending on surface conditions. However, applying the brakes after the motorcycle is already leaned over can be exceedingly risky depending on surface conditions and lean angle. Traditionally, trail braking is done exclusively with the front brake even though trailing the rear brake will effectively slow the motorcycle, also decreasing the turning radius. If the motorcycle is leaned over, forces from the front brake and the deceleration causes the motorcycle to yaw (lean), while use of the rear brake generates a torque that tends to align (straighten) and stabilize the motorcycle.[2] The rider's ability to correctly choose his turn in, apex and exit points reduces or eliminates the need for prolonged trailing of the brakes into turns. This technique is commonly used when racing, but can enhance control and add more evasive options for street riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFlash Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Wait, so you broke up with a board member and then joined the board? This is a good thing in that we now have a ready source of advise on her cooking before we take her word that she can boil water without burning it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 this is trail braking 101http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_brakingDid you read the whole article, or just highlight the parts you agreed with?Also, pay attention to the part where is says trail braking contradicts other more accepted street riding techniques (MSF, Code, etc.) Weighting the front end doesn't mean, smooth uneventful cornering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Did you read the whole article, or just highlight the parts you agreed with?Also, pay attention to the part where is says trail braking contradicts other more accepted street riding techniques (MSF, Code, etc.) Weighting the front end doesn't mean, smooth uneventful cornering.Who cares if it agrees with MSF or code? (more accepted is a relative term)Does that mean the physics is wrong? No it means the people writing books and passing laws think you should do it their way.Weighting the front end by using your brakes DOES mean more traction on the tire that is trying to change your direction...but hey, you ride how you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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