Ride Mandates&Rules for Group rides this year!

[flounder]

Ok so here's the deal. I already see all the threads popping up about cornering, tires, suspension, spirited rides, how do I xxxxx, etc and I have to vent about a few things before the season starts. And yes these are in order!!!!

1. GROUP RODE RIDES ARE NOT THE PLACE TO HAVE A D1CK MEASURING CONTEST TO SEE WHO THE FASTER RIDER IS!!!

2. Less experienced riders need to be in the front or else they always try and play keep up and end up crashing, or rear ending people in front of them. (Get this through your phucking heads people. Im sick of everyone always putting the less experienced people in the back on the group rides.)

3. Asking for riding tips on here is ok but remember, there are allot of opinions and opinions are like assholes and they all stink. What works for someone with more experience wont exactly work for you. Best advice you will get is to read "Twist of the Wrist" cover to cover 3times and practice those techniques on your day to day rides.

4. The track is the only place where you can truly and safely learn to ride controlled and fast and the $170 you spend on the track day will get you more experience then the $500 you spend in gas riding through the country roads trying to showoff to your friends.

5. If you crash your bike being a dumbass doing 1 of the above and ask me to haul your balled up pos bike in the bed of my truck since you have a ford festiva, I think im gonna charge people this year... Same thing for helping you rebuild...

And last but not least and actually probably the most important thus 1.1 is:

#1.1 If you are being a dumbass and you crash me, someone I care about, or a friend of mine, Your bike and your crash injury's will fail in comparison to what I do to you..

The season is upon us people and we have enough problems with cages not seeing us.. Be smart and safe this year.

Edited March 29, 2010 by flounder

[MidgetTodd]

Pretty solid advice right there, even though it souds like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed

#1 and 2 Needs to be stated time and time again.

[max power]

Simmer down Francis.

[jagr]

Hey rrrider. Make sure you read ALL of the flatfish post.

[scottb]

I would like to add dont ride on the right side of Likwid or try to keep up with Kosmo. Good advice. And also, do not ride directly next to me, staggered is the way for a group ride.

[Zach]

Hmm, ok flatfish.

These rules are understandable if you're riding with a group of people that you don't know. I think it would be better for your enjoyment and sanity to only ride with acquaintances or friends.

Expecting every one to heed your 'rules' will only keep people from wanting to ride with you. (maybe that's your goal )

[Tpoppa]

2. Less experienced riders need to be in the front or else they always try and play keep up and end up crashing, or rear ending people in front of them. (Get this through your phucking heads people. Im sick of everyone always putting the less experienced people in the back on the group rides.)

Not only is that bad advice but it will ensure no one has any fun.

This will NOT be the case on any ride I attend.

[Tpoppa]

double palm

[gixxie750]

what ever you do dont say you are going to train people! Gets you a LOT of sh*t around here. Oh and dont let new people lead.

[Casper]

Ok so here's the deal. I already see all the threads popping up about cornering, tires, suspension, spirited rides, how do I xxxxx, etc and I have to vent about a few things before the season starts. And yes these are in order!!!!

1. GROUP RODE RIDES ARE NOT THE PLACE TO HAVE A D1CK MEASURING CONTEST TO SEE WHO THE FASTER RIDER IS!!!

2. Less experienced riders need to be in the front or else they always try and play keep up and end up crashing, or rear ending people in front of them. (Get this through your phucking heads people. Im sick of everyone always putting the less experienced people in the back on the group rides.)

3. Asking for riding tips on here is ok but remember, there are allot of opinions and opinions are like assholes and they all stink. What works for someone with more experience wont exactly work for you. Best advice you will get is to read "Twist of the Wrist" cover to cover 3times and practice those techniques on your day to day rides.

4. The track is the only place where you can truly and safely learn to ride controlled and fast and the $170 you spend on the track day will get you more experience then the $500 you spend in gas riding through the country roads trying to showoff to your friends.

5. If you crash your bike being a dumbass doing 1 of the above and ask me to haul your balled up pos bike in the bed of my truck since you have a ford festiva, I think im gonna charge people this year... Same thing for helping you rebuild...

And last but not least and actually probably the most important thus 1.1 is:

#1.1 If you are being a dumbass and you crash me, someone I care about, or a friend of mine, Your bike and your crash injury's will fail in comparison to what I do to you..

The season is upon us people and we have enough problems with cages not seeing us.. Be smart and safe this year.

I agree with most if that except #2. To be technical, you should have your less experienced riders in the MIDDLE if it's one large group. Your two most experienced riders should be head and tail. This way the less experienced riders can feel safe following someone who knows what they're doing, and there's someone in the back to catch stragglers. Otherwise, split the groups. This is what we do on 99% of the group rides I've been on. The less experienced/slower riders hang in a separate group, with a few experienced riders hanging back with them. This works out best. Also, always have predetermined stops so everyone can regroup. Never leave anyone behind, and never ride above your ability. If you want to push your limits, you do it on the track.

[ReconRat]

Flounder is understandably concerned about the safety and welfare of those of us that ride.

We should all share those same concerns, to the best of our abilities.

It is not without reason to have these concerns.

I also vote for a safe and sane season of riding.

[flounder]

These comments are coming from what I have seen on the group rides for the past few years. They have gotten so big that there is no way to know everyone and their abilities.

Primary reason why I choose not to go on OR group rides much anymore.

And to Tpoppa.. dont worry.. After your comment, I can assure you I wont ride with you.

[Casper]

I also vote for a safe and sane season of riding.

That's basically it. For the most part, we're all friends here. Look out for eachother, and be careful.

[THE GRUNDISH]

Where will the riders on ONE wheel ride??? this is gonna be great reading the responses this gets!!!lol...........

[MidgetTodd]

Where will the riders on ONE wheel ride??? this is gonna be great reading the responses this gets!!!lol...........

In the front so everyone can watch, duh.

[Casper]

Where will the riders on ONE wheel ride??? this is gonna be great reading the responses this gets!!!lol...........

I hear 75 north of Cincy is a great place.

[flounder]

I agree with most if that except #2. To be technical, you should have your less experienced riders in the MIDDLE if it's one large group.

I disagree with you 100% here no offense. We have a term for this in the aviation community that you learn when your getting your pilots license and its hammered into your brain. Its called "Get there itis" Aka, you end up flying into bad weather or putting yourself beyond your abilities just to get to your destination. Same thing applies to riders. They want to show they can keep up with the faster riders and end up pushing themselves to where they are not comfortable or capable thus a crash. Same thing happens to the people behind them. Middle riders want to stay with the front and also feel pressured by the back.

Edited March 29, 2010 by flounder

[flounder]

Where will the riders on ONE wheel ride??? this is gonna be great reading the responses this gets!!!lol...........

Todd, you can just hang out in the pits at the track waiting for me to ball my bike there and then you can come and swipe whats still good for your bike.

Edited March 29, 2010 by flounder

[THE GRUNDISH]

lol

[RFM]

I don't do group rides. I will happily lead 3 or 4 other riders I can trust, or follow someone who I have faith in their ability. Highways are all law-abiding to the T. Country roads, and the same doesn't apply...

Those that I've ridden with know what I mean.

Rule 1. Keep your own comfortable pace, a person will wait at a route

turn off if needed.

Rule 2. Point out road debris with a foot gesture to which side it is.

Rule 3. Tap the top of helmet to indicate police.

Rule 4. Share phone numbers.

Them's my Rulez...

[SWing'R]

Not only is that bad advice but it will ensure no one has any fun. This will NOT be the case on any ride I attend.

I don't do group rides. I will happily lead 3 or 4 other riders I can trust

I'm not a big fan of a group over 4-5 people. Keep it simple, keep it small.

Edited March 29, 2010 by SWing'R

[John]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/flashback/122_0911_the_pace_nick_ienatsch/index.html

The Pace

Separating street from track, riding from racing

February, 2009

By Nick Ienatsch

Racing involves speed, concentration and commitment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and over aggressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten-tenths riding. But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.

A year after I joined Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life - and a part of the Sunday morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street riding technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.

THE PACE

The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.

If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.

YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT

Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.

Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.

More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.

A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS

The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.

Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.

New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.

There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.

RELAX AND FLICK IT

I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.

But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack.

The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.-MC

[RFM]

Good find, John.

[MidgetTodd]

I'm not big' date=' keep it small.[/quote'] TMI Swinger

[twisted12]

The last time I went to coshocton it was a pretty big ride and my first with a group that big(see album) I never felt rushed but I know for a fact there would be no f-en way i would be out front. Those roads are no joke, I just kind of fell into where I was comfortable and got to follow someone i was comfortable with.It was a great ride everybody waited and if you were riding above your head it was your fault because I never heard anyone bitch about waiting for the slower riders thats just my 2 cents.